Critical news debate Topic

arcticlegend
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Posted by overeasy on 5/8/2015 12:08:00 PM (view original):
If you hard cap the prospect budget at any value, you give the advantage to the winning teams who have a cheaper 1st round pick (or none if they signed a Type A).
I'm good with that. Another incentive not to tank.
5/8/2015 12:09 PM
arcticlegend
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Posted by rockindock on 5/8/2015 12:08:00 PM (view original):
2. More cities! I'll keep bringing this one up. My hometown of St. Paul deserves a team. We hate sharing with Minneapolis. And why no teams in Alaska or New Hampshire?

No baseball player wants to freeze his butt off up there.
Meh. Baseball is a summer game. I'd rather live in Alaska in the summer than Arizona.
5/8/2015 12:10 PM
overeasy
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Posted by arcticlegend on 5/8/2015 12:06:00 PM (view original):
I can see I'm in the minority on this one. That's fine. As I said, I won't cry if they do change it. But I'm happy the way things are.

Here are the changes I'd rather see:

1. Change the catcher fielding ratings. It's unrealistic that catchers can't move to first base (or even occasionally second or third like Craig Bigio or Todd Zeile). It's annoying that good hitting fathers have to either play DH or rack up negative plays in RF.

2. More cities! I'll keep bringing this one up. My hometown of St. Paul deserves a team. We hate sharing with Minneapolis. And why no teams in Alaska or New Hampshire?

3. Maybe some sort of built in penalty for financial tanking. Like, if you spend more on intl prospects than your player budget, you take a hit somehow. I know some worlds had rules to alleviate this, but I'd like to see a built in mechanism to prevent this.
1. I agree on this one. While guys like Biggio are rare, most RL catchers are very capable of playing at least 1B, if not 3B.

2. No opinion, but no problem with it. All my leagues have tight controls on team cities.

3. No way!  Budgeting is great as is where it is choice. You give up things in order to do other things. MWRs are the only penalty you need.
5/8/2015 12:13 PM
MikeT23
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1.  They really aren't.   Piazza is a good example.   Posada tried and was worse than Giambi(hard to do).    Catchers, for the most part, can't do much else.   You'll get a Biggio, Zeile or even Harper from time to time but there's a reason you can name 3 in the last 40 years.

2.  Whatever.

3.  Yeah, reducing budgets for whatever reason will lead to bad things. 
5/8/2015 12:21 PM
MikeT23
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And how come nobody wants to move position players to pitchers?   That seems to happen a lot more frequently. 
5/8/2015 12:22 PM
plague
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 11:29:00 AM (view original):
The big question that I hope you can answer:

Will ADV affect projections of prospects?
Or will HS/IFA/College budgets still be responsbile for those projections?
While I like the idea that advanced scouting shows projections for prospects and HS/IFA/College is strictly for how many prospects you see, that is a major change that not only effects a lot of owners, but changes the whole scouting system drastically.

When owners moved Advanced scouting to 0 they did so with the understanding that will give them the worst possible rating for making trades, but it had no effect on scouting for prospects. If what you said comes to fruition then having a 0 advanced scouting will be devastating in all aspects of trying to improve your team. With the restriction of only increasing it by 4 a season will take a owner about 3-4 seasons before they can raise it to a level of respectability. That is about a year of real life time and about $100 in cash.

I think if this is true in the short term you will see a lot of owners abandon their team and the short term effect will be a large turnover. Why spend 3 seasons of very little trading and no quality prospects when you can move to another team and start over or in the case of some owners quit altogether.

5/8/2015 12:25 PM
overeasy
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Is it really that catchers can't do much else or is it that in RL, most ML catchers are there primarily for defense and aren't worth moving around the field?  One of the funky things in HBD is that it seems the most plentiful source of good hitters are mediocre or worse fielding catchers.
5/8/2015 12:26 PM
MikeT23
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That may be true.   But I bet NO ONE wants to make those 3/24/67/71/83 defensive guys worse hitters so they're not worth moving to 1B.

Agree?
5/8/2015 12:39 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by plague on 5/8/2015 12:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 11:29:00 AM (view original):
The big question that I hope you can answer:

Will ADV affect projections of prospects?
Or will HS/IFA/College budgets still be responsbile for those projections?
While I like the idea that advanced scouting shows projections for prospects and HS/IFA/College is strictly for how many prospects you see, that is a major change that not only effects a lot of owners, but changes the whole scouting system drastically.

When owners moved Advanced scouting to 0 they did so with the understanding that will give them the worst possible rating for making trades, but it had no effect on scouting for prospects. If what you said comes to fruition then having a 0 advanced scouting will be devastating in all aspects of trying to improve your team. With the restriction of only increasing it by 4 a season will take a owner about 3-4 seasons before they can raise it to a level of respectability. That is about a year of real life time and about $100 in cash.

I think if this is true in the short term you will see a lot of owners abandon their team and the short term effect will be a large turnover. Why spend 3 seasons of very little trading and no quality prospects when you can move to another team and start over or in the case of some owners quit altogether.

Disagree.   In my worlds, virtually everyone is starting at the same place.     It will take everyone the same amount of time to make adjustments. 

And I can pretty much guarantee not one single owner in MG or Coop will dump his team because ADV can only be moved by 4m at a time.  Not one.  If one does, good riddance.    Anyone who likes their team, or their world, isn't dumping teams because of a change in ADV.
5/8/2015 12:42 PM
arcticlegend
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 12:21:00 PM (view original):
1.  They really aren't.   Piazza is a good example.   Posada tried and was worse than Giambi(hard to do).    Catchers, for the most part, can't do much else.   You'll get a Biggio, Zeile or even Harper from time to time but there's a reason you can name 3 in the last 40 years.

2.  Whatever.

3.  Yeah, reducing budgets for whatever reason will lead to bad things. 
3 in the last 40 years? I can do that. Joe Mauer plays first base now. Jim Leyritz started as a catcher but player some third base. And Scott Hatteberg also moved to first base. He was in Moneyball!

If you go back more than 40 years, Jimmie Foxx started as a catcher and moved to first. Yogi Berra played left field. And Joe Torre moved to third. All three are in the Hall of Fame. Sure, a lot of these guys were never Gold Glovers, but they also didn't rack up dozens of negative plays per year, like every converted catcher does in HBD.

More frequently, you have cases where a catcher is moved to another position in the minors. This happens all the time. Guy gets to AA with a good bat but isn't a great catcher? No problem. Move him to first base or left field, let him learn the position for a couple years, and he's in the big leagues. Justin Morneau is one example off the top of my head. Drafted as a catcher, but played his entire mlb career at first base.
5/8/2015 12:43 PM
crickett13
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Tying ADV to scouting just moves the loophole and perhaps even makes it bigger. Instead of 0 ADV I use 20 ADV 20 Int 0 HS 0 Col and completely punt the draft or go 20 ADV 20 Col 0 Int 0 HS and don't draft any HS players.
5/8/2015 12:45 PM
rockindock
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Buster Posey will soon be joining your list.
5/8/2015 12:46 PM
MikeT23
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I do that now.   My scouting often read 0/2/15 or 0/0/15 or 12/4/0.     My ADV is always 0.   And will stay that way if the only affect is other teams' prospects.
5/8/2015 12:47 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by arcticlegend on 5/8/2015 12:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 12:21:00 PM (view original):
1.  They really aren't.   Piazza is a good example.   Posada tried and was worse than Giambi(hard to do).    Catchers, for the most part, can't do much else.   You'll get a Biggio, Zeile or even Harper from time to time but there's a reason you can name 3 in the last 40 years.

2.  Whatever.

3.  Yeah, reducing budgets for whatever reason will lead to bad things. 
3 in the last 40 years? I can do that. Joe Mauer plays first base now. Jim Leyritz started as a catcher but player some third base. And Scott Hatteberg also moved to first base. He was in Moneyball!

If you go back more than 40 years, Jimmie Foxx started as a catcher and moved to first. Yogi Berra played left field. And Joe Torre moved to third. All three are in the Hall of Fame. Sure, a lot of these guys were never Gold Glovers, but they also didn't rack up dozens of negative plays per year, like every converted catcher does in HBD.

More frequently, you have cases where a catcher is moved to another position in the minors. This happens all the time. Guy gets to AA with a good bat but isn't a great catcher? No problem. Move him to first base or left field, let him learn the position for a couple years, and he's in the big leagues. Justin Morneau is one example off the top of my head. Drafted as a catcher, but played his entire mlb career at first base.
That may be true.   But I bet NO ONE wants to make those 3/24/67/71/83 defensive guys worse hitters so they're not worth moving to 1B.

Agree?
5/8/2015 12:48 PM
pkoopman
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Since we're talking about other changes we'd like to see.

1. What we call the ADV scouting budget should cover both current and projected ratings. IOW, current ratings should be every bit as fluctuating as projected ratings. If your advance scouts suck, you should pay for that in terms of signing crappy FAs, promoting the wrong guys, etc. The work around for those who want to zero out ADV should be they actually have to base their analysis on stats. That's how moneyball works anyway, so it should be a natural adjustment.

2. Blow up the international process. It's ridiculous. I'd rather see the INTL budget go toward targeted markets (ie, a 12 million dollar budget gets specified as 5 mil in Japan, 5 mil in DR, 2 mil in Mex). If you've spent the baseline (1 mil) in any country, you will see all prospects generated in that country. How accurate your scouting is depends on how much you actually spend. 

3. I'd like to see "lifers" in the coach hiring process. Guys (especially from your own organization as players) who will pretty much stay with you as long as you want them. The 1 year contract thing is silly and bugs me.
5/8/2015 12:49 PM
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