Celtics 2011-2012 thread Topic

badja
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Check out Perk's last 10 games. 
3/6/2012 10:50 PM
badja
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is sasha even playing?  You went from Perk to JO.  that's not kick ***.
3/6/2012 10:52 PM
deanod
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Posted by badja on 3/6/2012 10:50:00 PM (view original):
Check out Perk's last 10 games. 
OK- what am I looking for?   The fact that he's impressively worthless on offense or am I intended to marvel at the fact that he finally strung together some double digit reb games?  he's still pretty well below average rebounder for a center

www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi

3/6/2012 11:11 PM
deanod
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Posted by badja on 3/6/2012 10:52:00 PM (view original):
is sasha even playing?  You went from Perk to JO.  that's not kick ***.
Sasha plays when one of Pierce/Allen/Pietrus misses a game.  And he would have seen plenty of burn in the playoffs last year without Jeff Green in the picture, which was the whole friggin point of the deal.

FWIW JO was way better in the playoffs than Perk was last year, he was gimpy coming off his ACL tear and still hasn't fully recovered it seems.  Either that or the anorexic look isn't suiting him well.  And FWIW if they had been fortunate enough to have Shaq healthy for the playoffs Perk never sees the floor, the 1st unit raped with Shaq whenever he played last year.

Ainge didn't want to pay $$$ to extend Perk, he was super expendable and trading him was absolutely the logically correct move especially considering the haul they got.
3/6/2012 11:16 PM
stinenavy
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Perk blows, but thinking that getting Jeff Green and a first rounder as some kind of awesome haul is comical.
3/6/2012 11:30 PM
deanod
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Posted by stinenavy on 3/6/2012 11:30:00 PM (view original):
Perk blows, but thinking that getting Jeff Green and a first rounder as some kind of awesome haul is comical.
Let's put it this way- if the Clippers don't trade for Chris Paul, it's a coup to trade a 2 month rental of gimpy Perk for a pick that woulda landed in the 11-14 range in a sick, sick draft.  Considering we also got an OK player at an area of dire need, it was a kickass haul.

Of course everything that could have gone wrong with that deal did (for both sides really) but let's not be results oriented here.

3/6/2012 11:44 PM
BoSoxBoi
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Rondo "barely a top-10 pg" is laughable, I'd love to hear who the 9 superior ones are. 18-17-20 the other day-are you kidding? I'd be devastated if he were dealt for Gasol
3/7/2012 12:36 AM
deanod
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paul
rose
rwb
deron
nash
lowry
kyrie
t parker
rondo

is how i'd rank them now.  and there are plenty of guys who could pass him in the not too distant future between lawson, steph curry, john wall, and rubio

i'm sure you'll quarrel with lowry but he's pretty much the same thing as rondo except he's way better at shooting + defending, which are worth more than rondo's passing advantage.  and his team has the same record as boston playing in the west with a drastically worse supporting cast.

and pau's a much more useful player, no questions asked.  if you think rondo is better because he dropped 18-17-20 in a regular season game then you're probably an idiot and i can't really help you with that.
3/7/2012 10:45 AM
BoSoxBoi
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No, he's not better because of one regular season triple double, which he has 17 of. But 6 in the playoffs has to count for something? Averaging 17-10-10 in 08-09 postseason? i'll take the guy who plays better when the stage is bigger.

Nevermind that, he's 1st team all defense! I watched Lowry go 4-17 with 6 TO's last night...

Who is our starting PG if we deal for Gasol? Avery Bradley?
3/7/2012 11:24 AM
BoSoxBoi
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I just don't see the benefit of the deal...we trade away our 26 yo All-Star PG, and in a few years we're left with a mid-30's Pau Gasol, who is most certainly on the decline
Unless you think a line of Bradley-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Gasol becomes favorites in the East this year?
3/7/2012 11:34 AM
deanod
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Yeah sure Pau's on the decline but I'd still take him at ages 31-34 over Rondo at ages 25-28.  I do not not not want to re-sign Rondo for ages 29-33, he's going to age very poorly and will be nowhere near worth what he's making now- some dumb team is going to pay him for what he did from 24-28 instead of what he will do and thankfully I'm confident it won't be Ainge who makes that mistake.

And no, it obviously doesn't make us faves but it does make us a threat vs anyone.  And it's not that hard to just add a vet like Jamal Crawford to help pad the loss of Rondo on the decline.

Rondo has had some big games in the playoffs, but other than the Cleveland series in 2010 which was sick, sick, sick  I don't think he's been better than he normally is in the regular season.  He goes into triple double mode but also sees a pretty sizeable drop in his shooting %'s against quality D's (career 51.6 TS in the reg season 48.2 in the playoffs).

Rondo is all 1st team defense but that's based on a reputation that he no longer really plays up to.  Kyle Lowry really should have been the 1st team all defense selection last year.
3/7/2012 11:50 AM (edited)
badja
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LOL @ JO ever being better then Perkins since the trade. 

There are some guys (like Horace Grant and Horry for example) who just seem to consistently end up on title contending teams.  They may not have eye popping numbers, but they get it done when it counts and know their part in the game-the ultimate role players.  I guess you guys know more than actual NBA championship players who want to have this guy as a teammate.

As for Ainge, he did just what LA is doing: letting $$ influence what is best for his team.  He slammed the title window shut 2 years too early to set his team up for rebuilding  He saved a few bucks and played it safe and that does not win titles. 
3/7/2012 11:54 AM (edited)
badja
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Any of those top 10 guys have a ring or even been to the Finals?  Parker and no one else. 
Not like it matters.  It's miami- okc as far as the eye can see as this point.
3/7/2012 11:54 AM
moranis
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Posted by deanod on 3/7/2012 11:50:00 AM (view original):
Yeah sure Pau's on the decline but I'd still take him at ages 31-34 over Rondo at ages 25-28.  I do not not not want to re-sign Rondo for ages 29-33, he's going to age very poorly and will be nowhere near worth what he's making now- some dumb team is going to pay him for what he did from 24-28 instead of what he will do and thankfully I'm confident it won't be Ainge who makes that mistake.

And no, it obviously doesn't make us faves but it does make us a threat vs anyone.  And it's not that hard to just add a vet like Jamal Crawford to help pad the loss of Rondo on the decline.

Rondo has had some big games in the playoffs, but other than the Cleveland series in 2010 which was sick, sick, sick  I don't think he's been better than he normally is in the regular season.  He goes into triple double mode but also sees a pretty sizeable drop in his shooting %'s against quality D's (career 51.6 TS in the reg season 48.2 in the playoffs).

Rondo is all 1st team defense but that's based on a reputation that he no longer really plays up to.  Kyle Lowry really should have been the 1st team all defense selection last year.
I think any Gasol for Rondo trade will look something like this.

Gasol, Blake

for

Rondo, Bass, O'neal

Thus the Celtics would end up with Blake for about 24 minutes a game at the point and they could probably get by with Blake and Bradley, though could probably land someone like Sessions for one of the firsts if it was really a problem.  The reality is, a PG isn't really all that critical to winning a title.  Aside from Magic, Isiah, and Cousy none of the all time greats at the position won a title in their prime.  Heck rarely does a PG make an all star team and win (or even make) the finals in that season (at least anymore).  Now it appears it may be shifting slightly with players like Rose, Westbrook, Paul, etc., being on teams that could get to the finals, but the odds on favorites don't exactly have a great PG, last years winner had an ancient HOFer at the position, so perhaps the trend isn't even changing.
3/7/2012 12:26 PM
deanod
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sigh badja, why do you insist on being clueless.

last year in the playoffs JO posted an 11.8 PER while perk was 6.1, they were probably similarly effective on D.  perk is not a difference maker anymore.

rondo was upset because he was bff's with Perk, of ******* course he's going to overrate him.  you think winning championships means you have any ******* clue how to build or GM a team?  look at Jordan he's like the worst front office executive of all time.

and impeccable logic on the PG thing- so it's OK to rank fish higher than rondo but kyrie is a no no because he hasn't been to the finals yet.  lolllllll

3/7/2012 12:29 PM
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