Celtics 2011-2012 thread Topic

deanod
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there's no way he should be able to hit 60-65% of open 15 footers.

pretty much anybody who does consistently get wide open 15 footers is going to hit them at < 50% rate.  Rondo's an overall 40% shooter from the midrange, and most of them are open i'm pretty sure.

he's a bad shooter, that's part of the package.  imo it's silly to fantasize about a land where he's a good shooter- if he was one then he'd be the best PG in the league.  but if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle, and Rondo isn't the best PG in the league.

4/13/2012 3:23 PM
jvford
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Any NBA player should be able to hit 60-65% of open 15 footers.  The point is that teams will give him (or any player) that shot until they demonstrate that A) They can make it and B) They are willing to take it every time it's available to them.

Rondo has demonstrated A but not B. 
4/13/2012 3:38 PM
deanod
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Maybe they should be able to do so in your head, but in reality that's not true. 

Your logic goes: everybody in the NBA should be a good shooter > Rondo is in the NBA > he should be a good shooter > if he's a good shooter for the playoffs the Celtics are in good shape!

But not everybody in the NBA is a good or even decent shooter, so you're just building a silly argument on false premises.  I don't even know what your point is other than a really subtle way to ***** at Rondo for being a sucky shooter.
4/15/2012 12:45 PM
jvford
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You don't have to be a good shooter to shoot 60% on wide open looks from 15 feet. ****, I can hit 6 of 10 from 15 feet.

My point is that Rondo should be taking those shots whenever they give it to him.....and he doesn't.
4/15/2012 9:41 PM
felonius
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Ok Skip
4/15/2012 10:24 PM
deanod
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Maybe you're a better shooter than Rondo
4/16/2012 10:32 AM
AlCheez
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Posted by jvford on 4/15/2012 9:41:00 PM (view original):
You don't have to be a good shooter to shoot 60% on wide open looks from 15 feet. ****, I can hit 6 of 10 from 15 feet.

My point is that Rondo should be taking those shots whenever they give it to him.....and he doesn't.
So what shots IS he taking that his midrange percentages are so poor?
4/16/2012 10:49 AM
jvford
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My guess is from farther out since he takes less than 1 per game from 10-15 feet.
4/16/2012 11:24 AM
AlCheez
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Right, and he's ~30% on those limited shots.  So when exactly did he demonstrate the ability to make the open 15 footer consistently?  Did he make 2 in a row in a game you watched once?  You do seem rather optimistic about the shooting ability of a guy who can barely even hit 60% from 15 feet from straight on with the game stopped.
4/16/2012 11:51 AM
jvford
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That percentage isn't limited to open shots.

I know it's mostly anecdotal, but he seems to hit those shots when he's wide open.  When he's covered and has to take them with the shot clock winding down, he misses.

Throw in the fact that I see him pass up the open 15 footer often, and I think 60% is reasonable.

4/16/2012 12:00 PM
jvford
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Of course, if he was hitting them, no one would leave him open....and the Celts offense would stall less often, which is the point.
4/16/2012 12:02 PM
malone9975
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Look at 8games.com.

Rondo doesn't have an eFG% better than 40.9 when more than 10 seconds have ticked off the shot clock.  So, if he isn't in transition he can't shoot.  In the clutch he has a FG% of 26.1.  He shoots 9.1% on jumpers in the clutch as well and 33.1% on jump shots over the course of a game.

In short if he isn't on the break his only strengths are as a passer, defender, and better than average rebounder at his position.
4/16/2012 12:14 PM
deanod
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jv- i think you have some cognitive biases that are preventing you from rationally assessing this.
4/16/2012 12:15 PM
AlCheez
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Posted by jvford on 4/16/2012 12:00:00 PM (view original):
That percentage isn't limited to open shots.

I know it's mostly anecdotal, but he seems to hit those shots when he's wide open.  When he's covered and has to take them with the shot clock winding down, he misses.

Throw in the fact that I see him pass up the open 15 footer often, and I think 60% is reasonable.

I think it's the height of optimisim to expect a 60% FT shooter to equal that percentage on shots taken from the same distance at different angles while the game is actually live.
4/16/2012 12:17 PM
jvford
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Yep, because using the available info, I'd have to conclude that Ray Allen sucks at shooting from mid-range as well.
4/16/2012 12:25 PM
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