All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?
7/18/2008 9:22 PM
When does the possession penalty actually hit. Abrondon's t25 team has 4200 fga and 1850 fta, and the t/o is only 21 per game.

Ashleyscott has made a similar (60%+ fg%, low possessions) in a new league with 3500 fga and 1500 fta. I simmed against his team in the simmatchus and the possession penalty hasnt kicked in either. So what is the story here? Is the possession penalty simply a myth?
7/18/2008 10:48 PM
Bigfoot stole it, and he's hiding it in Area 51.
7/19/2008 2:21 AM
I think that you have a very good question, tianyi. The recent patch did something with it.
7/19/2008 11:58 AM
It's actually 57.5%. The concept for this team was to draft a roster full of 10 to 11% usage players with high FG%, many boards, and full minutes (e.g. 19680 min). The team averages 60 boards per game in real life. I wanted to create a super rebounding dominate team again like my Roy Roger's Chicken teams of the years past.

I don't recall the possession penalty was supposed to affect TOs. It was for FG%. And for individual players. Dropping the shooting % if the player shoots above his normal amount (where the normal amount is adjusted, I assume, by pace -- slow-down, half-court, uptempo).

The theory behind my team concept was to keep the usage % low so as to spread out the possessions to all of the players in order to minimize the penalty.

So far I'm 1-0, scoring a whopping 100 points on 51% shooting and 22 TOs from a team with 1016 total TOs in real-life.

If you want to test the penalty, draft a high FG% player like the 67-68 Wilt. Surround him with low usage players so Wilt would take most of the shots. Watch his FG% drop like a rock from 59 to 40. He went from 1300 FG in real life to 2000 in the sim.

On a related note, those low usage players seem to make better defensive teams.

7/19/2008 12:03 PM
Guys, we're aware of this issue and should have it fixed next week. Thanks.
7/19/2008 1:01 PM
Quote: Originally posted by seble on 7/19/2008Guys, we're aware of this issue and should have it fixed next week. Thanks.

Thx seble.

Ashleyscott, I made this post bc ghostdog did a kobe bryant for 50ppg team, with about 5k fga and 2k fta and his t/o was off the charts due to possession penalty. I was shocked to see your team and then see abrondon's team in t25 with only 4k fga and normal t/os.
7/19/2008 1:01 PM
since you're being so forthcoming seble how about can you clarify what the negative effects of the penalty are supposed to be - there seems to be some debate as to whether the penalty impacts turnover rate - true or false?
7/19/2008 7:23 PM
The TO is based roughly on real-life TO/FGA ratio plus fudge factor (which I assumed is based on owner settings on slow-down, half-court, uptempo). And the fudge factor seems to be always positive (i.e. makes the player TO more than in real-life). I do have 1 team where the factor appears negative.

This is the reason that guys like Dennis Rodman who don't turn the ball over much in real-life turns the ball over more in the sim regardless if he shoots the ball at his normal pace.

Players in real-life that shoot a high % often also don't shoot much. So in the sim, they turn the ball over more (see fudge factor above). So they may TO 2.5 times per 12 shots in real-life but end up TO'ing 3.0 per 12 shots in the sim due to the fudge factor. The player might TO 6.25 per 25 shots when shooting at higher number. But that's not the possession penalty. The ratio is still the same.



7/19/2008 7:32 PM

Another oddity, I'm currently first in the conference at 2-0 but 2nd in my division. Go figure.

I'm playing the 1st place team (in my division but who's 4th in the conference) next.


7/19/2008 9:00 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By ashleyscott on 7/19/2008
The TO is based roughly on real-life TO/FGA ratio plus fudge factor (which I assumed is based on owner settings on slow-down, half-court, uptempo). And the fudge factor seems to be always positive (i.e. makes the player TO more than in real-life). I do have 1 team where the factor appears negative.

This is the reason that guys like Dennis Rodman who don't turn the ball over much in real-life turns the ball over more in the sim regardless if he shoots the ball at his normal pace.

Players in real-life that shoot a high % often also don't shoot much. So in the sim, they turn the ball over more (see fudge factor above). So they may TO 2.5 times per 12 shots in real-life but end up TO'ing 3.0 per 12 shots in the sim due to the fudge factor. The player might TO 6.25 per 25 shots when shooting at higher number. But that's not the possession penalty. The ratio is still the same.



dont forget the opponent stats and settings that can impact as well ('press'; steals and indirectly FTAs (as sometimes TOs occur due to offensive fouls)

nevertheless if memory serves increased rate of turnovers were at one point mentioned as part of the consequences for low usage rates being abused
7/19/2008 11:44 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/19/2008Guys, we're aware of this issue and should have it fixed next week. Thanks
Will this affect leagues that are already in progress?
7/20/2008 12:48 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By ncmusician_7 on 7/19/2008
Quote: Originally Posted By seble on 7/19/2008
Guys, we're aware of this issue and should have it fixed next week. Thanks.
Will this affect leagues that are already in progress
it is right now
7/20/2008 1:24 AM
I think he means the fix - will it correct the problem for leagues that are already in progress.

I'm wondering, too.
7/22/2008 2:56 PM
Yes, I'm curious too, as apparently one of my squads will be directly effected by the revelation. Obviously I'd prefer the Sim not to be tweaked midstream, since I would have constructed a different lineup otherwise.
7/22/2008 3:25 PM
... Incidentally, my team according to real life totals would average 12.2 TOs per game, so getting 21 per is quite a sizable increase as is. FG% has definitely NOT suffered as a result of the extra shots, however. In fact, it's improved. I like to think of that as a result of good coaching, but guess my pre-game pep talks had nothing to do with it.
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All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > SimLeague Basketball > Possession Penalty, Where is it?

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