HD prior to 2007 / Questions Topic

kkyutzy
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I started playing in November 2007 and I thought the game was good. Coaches could recruit players and mold them they way they wanted with the practice plan. Gameplanning seemed to make a difference, and recruiting was fairly simple. If I were to start today, I think I would last 1 season for several reasons, 1) Recruiting at DIII would make no sense with FSS. 2) My practice plan is obsolete unless I follow what the players FSS told me to do. 3) Gameplanning now is in my opinion minor in outcomes of the game.

A) What was the difference in the game prior to Nov. 2007?

B) Who are some of the coaches that asked for POTENTIAL and how many of them really like it?

C) As I read the forums there is so much negative talk going on it would make me to think this is a really terrible game. Why does everyone want to be so negative? That does not encourage anyone to hang around and pay to play.

D) Why does everyone compare HD to real life? This is a simulation game, it should not mimic real life. I don't even think there should be baseline PRESTIGE. If you aren't a good coach you schools prestige should be able to go to F. If your a good coach your prestige should jump up the same as anyone else's has the capability to.

E) Is it everyone that thinks things are bad or just veterans that aren't winning as much as they think they should? Maybe some credit goes to some newer coaches that are successful. Rails had a great run back when everyone moved from DII to DI in TARK. Not to take anything away from rails but it's much easier being the experienced coach facing newbies. Lostmyth (Phelan and Knight) is doing something right lately, and apparently against the good coaches and it sounds like people think it's because the engine is broke. Anytime things in a game like this change you must adjust to it, complaining about it might get things changed but adaptation will win everytime. Right now RECRUITING is 90+% of this game. THANKS POTENTIAL.

F) Maybe a solution to the draft argument would be for WIS to start a new NBA DYNASTY WORLD that drafts players fom the HD WORLD. This way the draft would be done by human coaches. Any thoughts on this?

11/7/2009 6:29 PM
john_mills
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Hey KK -

i started around nov. 2007 as well.

re: B. I like potential, and think that it allows for more gameplanning options than before. Because players now have stengths/weaknesses, you gameplan all the way from recruiting pieces for your teams needs, but also on a game to game basis. It makes a coach put more thought into what they value in a specific recruit/player.
11/7/2009 6:41 PM
zhawks
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Potential would be a fantastic addition if it was implemented correctly. As of now it is not only completely unrealistic, as all players max out very quickly and there is no variation as to how players go about reaching their potentials and it has completely destroyed the ability to develop your players how you as coach want to.
11/7/2009 6:53 PM
oldave
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great post kk, i wish i had time to give some feedback, but it would take me a while

one thing i will say is that you are 100% on the money when you say this is a great game and why does it seem like so many vets criticize it so much? i will admit to sometimes being one of the complainers and i think i can speak for most of the vets... at least the ones that keep hanging around. the thing is we love the game and realize it is a very good game. and we kind of have alot invested. but, its like relationships with people, the longer you know someone, the more flaws you see. and so as we look at the game closer and closer, we see things that could change and make the game better. and , of course, when changes are actually put in place, we are kinda scared that the game will change for the worse and will either hurt our chances to succed, or make the game less enjoyable.

hope some of that made sense. wish i had more time to explain some of of the differences in HD1.0 to you. there really have been quite a few changes for the better. the one that comes to mind quickly, even though it doesnt affect the game and you would think is kinda minor... when we were given the ability to schedule our non-con games. prior to that change, the noncon games were given to you at random. and you really had to hope you didnt get several bad teams to drag your sos down. the only thing you had control over was your exhibition games. so many of us actually placed more importantance on establishing rivalries in those ex games.
11/7/2009 7:33 PM
brianp87
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Quote: Originally Posted By kkyutzy on 11/07/2009
I started playing in November 2007 and I thought the game was good. Coaches could recruit players and mold them they way they wanted with the practice plan. Gameplanning seemed to make a difference, and recruiting was fairly simple. If I were to start today, I think I would last 1 season for several reasons, 1) Recruiting at DIII would make no sense with FSS. 2) My practice plan is obsolete unless I follow what the players FSS told me to do. 3) Gameplanning now is in my opinion minor in outcomes of the game.

A) What was the difference in the game prior to Nov. 2007?

B) Who are some of the coaches that asked for POTENTIAL and how many of them really like it?

I liked it before but feel if potential is fixed the game will be better

C) As I read the forums there is so much negative talk going on it would make me to think this is a really terrible game. Why does everyone want to be so negative? That does not encourage anyone to hang around and pay to play.

I agree completely

D) Why does everyone compare HD to real life? This is a simulation game, it should not mimic real life. I don't even think there should be baseline PRESTIGE. If you aren't a good coach you schools prestige should be able to go to F. If your a good coach your prestige should jump up the same as anyone else's has the capability to.

xactly a small school should be able to compete with the big schools

E) Is it everyone that thinks things are bad or just veterans that aren't winning as much as they think they should? Maybe some credit goes to some newer coaches that are successful. Rails had a great run back when everyone moved from DII to DI in TARK. Not to take anything away from rails but it's much easier being the experienced coach facing newbies. Lostmyth (Phelan and Knight) is doing something right lately, and apparently against the good coaches and it sounds like people think it's because the engine is broke. Anytime things in a game like this change you must adjust to it, complaining about it might get things changed but adaptation will win everytime. Right now RECRUITING is 90+% of this game. THANKS POTENTIAL.

F) Maybe a solution to the draft argument would be for WIS to start a new NBA DYNASTY WORLD that drafts players fom the HD WORLD. This way the draft would be done by human coaches. Any thoughts on this?

Would be coolbut wont ever happen



11/7/2009 8:30 PM
vandydave
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HD is compared to real life because the original admin used real life stats to set the stat models for results in the HD engine.
11/7/2009 8:45 PM
zhawks
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Exactly and HD is modeled on a real life thing, it will always be compared to real life. What else could you compare it to? If you are trying to say that just because it is one way in real life doesn't mean that it is good for HD, I think you are right with many of us who say the same thing. But to disregard HD's real life counterpart wouldn't be easy or a good thing to do.
11/7/2009 9:01 PM
kkyutzy
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For retention sake though, any DI school needs to have the ability to compete with the BIG BOYS. There are only so many BCS schools out there and if you dream job gets taken by another player with the same dream that person is with 2 things to do. Stick around and hope or join another world and work your way up. This is why initially Knight and Phelan were great. But, now the BCS schools are taken and the interest is gone. Recently, numerous smaller schools have won the NC or made nice runs, which I think is great for the game but the nay sayers come up with real life comparison. That is the real life comparison that I don't think is at all accurate. In real life High Point might get out to a great start in a game against UNC but with a quick timeout and some adjustments or a chair toss the momentum can be changed in real life. Not possible in HD so get over the real life stuff. IMO
11/7/2009 9:23 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally posted by kkyutzy on 11/07/2009For retention sake though, any DI school needs to have the ability to compete with the BIG BOYS.  There are only so many BCS schools out there and if you dream job gets taken by another player with the same dream that person is with 2 things to do.  Stick around and hope or join another world and work your way up.  This is why initially Knight and Phelan were great.  But, now the BCS schools are taken and the interest is gone.  Recently, numerous smaller schools have won the NC or made nice runs, which I think is great for the game but the nay sayers come up with real life comparison.  That is the real life comparison that I don't think is at all accurate.  In real life High Point might get out to a great start in a game against UNC but with a quick timeout and some adjustments or a chair toss the momentum can be changed in real life.  Not possible in HD so get over the real life stuff.  IMO

kky, i don't know who you are arguing against here. Nobody said that only certain D1 schools should have a chance at winning.

Every so often someone comes up and makes the argument that you are trying to make that there 'Aren't enough BCS schools that become open in HD' And that is not true. Every year there are a handful of good jobs that open up. Yes sometimes it takes a bit of patience, but that is part of the game.
11/7/2009 9:34 PM
colonels19
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Well said about the real life stuff in the context that you put it in, kk. When I run/play seasons in the EA NCAA Football series...lesser teams like North Texas and Colorado State get good and make BCS bowl games and/or contend for national championships, and I think its good for the game...it makes it more interesting. Personally, I think and have always thought that these games would be more successful/popular if only the top divisions were used...people would rather start with Vermont than George Fox...I think, but if that "dream" is $100+ away, then is it really worth it? Not many people would know any D3 or D2 teams if it weren't for this game.
11/7/2009 9:39 PM
reinsel
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I like this game. I like potential. And I hate the complaint that if you practice something 1000 hours you HAVE to get better at it. Go try to practice 1000 hours and shoot NBA 3s as well as Kobe does. I'm guessing your hard ceiling is below his.

And you can develop you players how you want. You just do it through recruiting more now than through practice planning. Does that require more recruit planning? Yes.

Is that a problem? Maybe, but I think recruting is the best part of the game, and should be, so having it be important is realistic. Dean Smith isn't winning all those games with Idaho State's rosters from 1970-2000.
11/8/2009 12:00 AM
ellisonatg
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I've long thought that the criticisms of potential were unduly harsh once they fixed the rapid acceleration problem.
11/8/2009 1:07 AM
kmasonbx
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Recruiting is the by far the most important thing in college sports, why shouldn't it be the same here?
11/8/2009 1:56 AM
oldresorter
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to answer part of the original ? - I would guess the two biggest changes to the game are

#1 - fatigue and stamina used to be a major gameplanning weapon, such that the top coaches developed several techniques to wear out inferior teams, 1st fatigue was introduced to set rosters in addition to target minutes, but that still did not take this strategy away - then an engine change was made, which did, right now I don't think it is possible to wear another team out (a bad team / strategy can wear itself out still, gut a great team cannot wear out a good one simply by employing strategy)

#2 - as stated above, the game used to be a balance between recruiting, game planning, and practice planning, practice planning's affect has been limited due to the intro of potential, and recruiting's affect has been enhanced, making the player development part of the game largely a 3 day exercise (recruiting), rather than a 45 day exercise, recruiting and practice planning - I would guess top coaches were gaining 10 points a year (40 points a career) over the average coaches due to skillfull use of practice plans, right now, that number might be 5-10 points a career, it is still available, just not nearly as dramatic
11/8/2009 7:01 AM
moy23
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I still have never figured out how people can say potential has really hampered a coaches ability to build a player.

I seem to remember the oldschool way of recruiting and building a player like so:

  • Recruit very high DEF, SB, and FT%.... these skills will not move with any amount of practice minutes during the season.
  • The other abilities all improved at the same rate. The difference of putting 15 minutes or 10 minutes on each category was about 2 points per season.
  • Players w/ < 20 points in any attribute - do not waste minutes on them since they will not grow.
  • WE - Every player in the league developed 20-30 points during the season, but those with high WE went up an additional 20 points per season w/ offseason improvements.


I just don't get how we have less ability now to mold and build a player. It seems like now we can move the FT/SB/DEF bars... and the <20 attribute bars. That in and of itself is more control.

We get more inseason player improvement and less offseason. Doesn't this mean that practice mins mean more now than in the past?



<shrug>
11/8/2009 9:39 AM
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