All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > R.I.P. Ron Santo
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
12/6/2011 3:33 PM
doesn't this just really point out how big a hole is in the HOF until Mort Cooper gets his induction?
12/6/2011 3:58 PM
Actually, someone's post fits the desription of a reasonable argument. He made a complaint."The BBWAA is not qualified to vote". He gave his reason for making that statement then followed it up with an alternative solution and then even offered a possible rebuttal to his solution. It wasn't just a mere complaint.
12/6/2011 3:59 PM
Posted by antoncresten on 12/6/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):
SCRUB FANS ARE EXTREME HOMERS AND VERY PROVINCIAL
this one is just funny...although being called a Homer isn't such a bad thing in my view...Homer was an ancient Greek poet which is pretty cool.
12/6/2011 4:07 PM
MikeT:"Santo as one of the best players of all-time?   A joke.   And that's not meant to diminish Santo's accomplishments.  They're just not something you're going to tell your grandkids about if you're not a Cubs fan."
 
Interesting point for sure. But he was a 9 time All-Star and 5 time Gold Glove winner. I guess the question is Should a Willie Mays or Hank Aaron be the standard of the Hall of Fame?

12/6/2011 4:16 PM
IMO, yes.    Hall of Fame should be the best of the best.   Even as a Yankee fan, I recall the Garvey, Cey, Russell, Lopes infield.  All quality players.   Multiple A/S games amongst them.  I imagine, on the HOF scale of your choosing, that Garvey and Cey would register as "close".   But do any of them deserve to the in the HOF?   Are they All-time greats? 

There's a "feel" you should get when a player is eligibile.   The only people who got that "feel" for Santo was Cubs fans. 
12/6/2011 4:28 PM
Posted by antoncresten on 12/6/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):
SCRUB FANS ARE EXTREME HOMERS AND VERY PROVINCIAL
You misspelled "homos".  Dumbass.
12/6/2011 5:48 PM
Posted by winnetka1 on 12/6/2011 3:58:00 PM (view original):
Actually, someone's post fits the desription of a reasonable argument. He made a complaint."The BBWAA is not qualified to vote". He gave his reason for making that statement then followed it up with an alternative solution and then even offered a possible rebuttal to his solution. It wasn't just a mere complaint.
The reality of his suggestion is that there is still enough of the "old school" mentality among the baseball establishment such that they're not about to turn the keys of the HOF over to the SABR stat-nerds.  My best guess is that's a generation (20-25 years) away.

Plus, if you believe that there are some intangible qualities that players have (leadership, clubhouse presence, etc.), that's not going to show up in stats, so how would the SABR nerds be able to quantify that and incorporate that into the voting process?

If the stats themselves are borderline, there needs to be a "feel" that a particular player is a HOFer.  And as Mike also pointed out, outside of Wrigleyville, Santo never had that HOF feel.

12/6/2011 8:13 PM
So you're now an expert on the baseball world's opinion of Santo during his playing career?

Oh.  My bad.
12/6/2011 8:17 PM
I can't speak for tec but I am.

12/6/2011 8:37 PM
Posted by mudbone1969 on 12/6/2011 8:13:00 PM (view original):
So you're now an expert on the baseball world's opinion of Santo during his playing career?

Oh.  My bad.
Yes.  "Because I said so!"
12/6/2011 8:41 PM
I believe that settles it. 
12/6/2011 9:51 PM
The standard for the Hall of Fame is not whatever we want it to be.  The Baseball Hall of Fame does not define specifically what it means to be a Hall of Famer.  The only way we can judge a player's candidacy is to compare him to other members of the Hall.  I know you might not be getting that "feeling" when you think about Santo, probably because he was overshadowed during his career by Ernie Banks and Billy Williams.  But if you look at the numbers, the intangible contributions, and the years of broadcasting, Santo compares favorably to current Hall of Famers.  I recall Pie Traynor was mentioned.  Santo's career WAR was twice Traynor's.  I won't lie, I'd say Santo's case is borderline.  But in my judgement, and in the judgement of 15 of the 16 members of the Veterans' Committee, Santo is over the line.
12/6/2011 10:29 PM
So lowest common denominator?  Can't see any fault in that.   As long as you're better than the worst mistake, you're in.  
12/6/2011 10:39 PM
Santo is ranked 75th in career WAR.  The Hall of Fame has more than 200 members.  Prior to his selection, he had the 3rd highest WAR total of all non-Hall of Famers who were off the BBWAA ballot.  I think this is far from a "lowest common denominator" case.
of 8
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > R.I.P. Ron Santo

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.