# Understanding Fatigue Topic

Just out of curiosity, in regards to hitters fatigue, why wouldn't pitches thrown be used to calculate fatigue rather than PA's? It seems that you could calculate a hitters NP by the same calculation as a pitchers PT and then base fatigue off of how many pitches a batter is calculated to see. The reason I am asking is in regards to my 1987 Eric Davis whom appears to be getting robbed of fatigue if I look at it by number of pitches he's received. Currently his numbers are as follows:

104 games into the season - 100 GP / 422 PA /  55 BB / 122 K's / 1646 NP and fatigue @ 94%

RL numbers : 562 PA / 84 BB / 134 K's I believe this equates to 2536 pitches available @ 110% using the pitching allocation method I saw in a different forum post and 2305 pitches available @ 100%.

So if Eric Davis had 2305 available pitches for 162 games that = 14.228/G*104 games = 1480 pitches @ 100%(no 10% bonus) and for my Eric Davis @ 94% (16% over), he should have 1716 NP's, 70 more than he has. Or his actual fatigue would be closer to 99% (11% over).

So if fatigue does have an effect on offensive peformance I see a couple issues that favor pitchers over hitters: 1)hitters fatigue faster than pitchers. A hitter can literally see 4 pitches and get 4 PA's. 4 pitches to the pitcher is a much smaller fatigue effect than 4 PA's to a hitter. 2)quicker hitter fatigue leads to a snowball advantage to the pitchers. As fatigue sets in quicker on hitters it gives the pitchers even more of an advantage as the hitters get proportionately worse the more their fatigue drops. It's kind of like double dipping on an already unfair advantage.

Maybe there are other things I am missing (very likely) but doesn't the PA method for batter fatigue vs the PT method for pitchers fatigue favor pitchers more than hitters?
1/1/2013 6:37 PM
When a ball (as opposed to a strike or hit ball) is thrown, a pitcher actually winds up and hurls a sphere at 90 plus MPH. A batter stands there and doesn't do anything.
1/2/2013 6:53 AM
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I think fatigue/stamina is still too enigmatic. Nothing ticks me off more than my well-managed, 100% team getting Deliveranced by a team half-full of guys at 85-95% (and, of course, those guys are the ones that seem to do all the damage, including RPs).

Which would you rather have: a team of 85% guys rolling hot, or a team of 100% guys rolling cool-average? I think we all know the answer, and that's a significant problem with this game.
3/13/2017 1:23 PM
And for the argument that they do well in isolated circumstances, but over the long run fatigued players perform badly:

In an active league, 2013 Will Smith, 4 of the 11 ERs he's given up were during the handful of outings during which he was at 100%:
 Date Opponent % IP BFP PC W L SV R ER H HR SO BB WP ERA OAV WHIP Box 1/21 pm Black Snakes 100 0.1 2 10 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 27.00 .500 3.00 view 1/22 am @Upward Mobility 100 0.1 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 13.50 .333 1.50 view 1/23 pm2 SF Carew to Oz 100 1.0 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 5.40 .167 0.60 view 1/24 am @Des Moines Pride 100 0.2 3 11 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 3.86 .222 0.86 view 1/24 pm @Des Moines Pride 100 1.0 4 10 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 5.40 .231 0.90 view 1/25 pm2 The.rock 100 0.2 2 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4.50 .200 0.75 view 1/26 am The.rock 87 1.0 3 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.60 .167 0.60 view 1/28 am HUCK & BOOTS 100 1.0 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3.00 .143 0.50 view 1/28 pm Yes We Can 98 1.0 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.57 .125 0.43 view 1/29 pm Single Malt BLISS 100 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2.35 .115 0.52 view 1/30 pm2 Citizens 100 0.1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.25 .111 0.50 view 2/1 am UTAH UTES 100 0.2 2 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.08 .103 0.46 view 2/1 pm UTAH UTES 100 1.0 3 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1.86 .094 0.41 view 2/2 pm @Men in Blue 100 0.1 2 11 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1.80 .118 0.50 view 2/2 pm2 Men in Blue 96 0.1 1 4 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.74 .114 0.48 view 2/3 pm2 @Reclusive Novelists 100 0.1 3 16 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 2.53 .135 0.66 view 2/4 pm Bono's Bunch 88 100 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2.38 .150 0.71 view 2/6 am @PV Mick & Ted 100 1.0 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.19 .136 0.65 view 2/6 pm PV Mick & Ted 89 0.1 2 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.13 .152 0.71 view 2/7 am @Boondock Saints 100 0.0 2 11 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 2.84 .170 0.87 view 2/7 pm2 @SF Carew to Oz 97 0.1 2 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.77 .184 0.92 view 2/8 pm @The.rock 94 0.2 2 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.63 .176 0.88 view 2/9 am @The.rock 92 0.2 3 11 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.51 .185 0.91 view 2/9 pm2 WENTLEY REDS 88 0.2 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.40 .182 0.87 view 2/10 pm @Single Malt BLISS 92 0.2 3 13 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 2.30 .190 0.89 view 2/12 am Upward Mobility 96 0.0 2 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2.30 .190 1.02 view 2/12 pm2 Upward Mobility 92 0.1 2 7 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 2.81 .200 1.06 view 2/14 pm Des Moines Pride 100 0.1 2 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 2.76 .197 1.10 view 2/15 am @UTAH UTES 98 0.2 3 11 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 3.18 .203 1.12 view 2/16 am Reclusive Novelists 98 1.1 4 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.95 .191 1.04 view 2/16 pm2 Reclusive Novelists 94 1.0 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.79 .183 0.98 view 2/18 pm Bad Lands 100 0.1 2 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 2.75 .181 1.02 view 2/19 am @WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE 98 1.0 3 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2.61 .173 0.97 view 2/19 pm2 @50's Reds 95 1.0 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2.49 .179 0.97 view 2/20 pm Yankee Knights 93 1.0 3 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.38 .173 0.93 view 2/21 pm2 Black Snakes 96 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.31 .179 0.94 view 2/23 am SF Carew to Oz 99 0.1 2 10 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 2.66 .186 0.97 view 2/23 pm2 SF Carew to Oz 97 0.2 4 11 0 0 0 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 2.96 .189 0.99 view 2/24 pm @Des Moines Pride 95 1.0 3 11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.84 .183 0.95 view 2/25 am UTAH UTES 93 1.0 3 13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2.73 .177 0.91 view 2/25 pm2 UTAH UTES 90 1.1 4 12 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2.60 .180 0.90 view 2/26 pm @Reclusive Novelists 87 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.54 .184 0.92 view 2/27 am Bono's Bunch 88 86 1.0 4 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.45 .178 0.89 view 2/27 pm2 Bono's Bunch 88 86 1.0 3 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.37 .173 0.86 view 2/28 pm2 @Yankee Knights 85 1.0 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.30 .175 0.86 view 3/2 am @WENTLEY REDS 86 0.0 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2.30 .183 0.89 view 3/3 pm2 Single Malt BLISS 92 1.0 4 16 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 2 0 0 2.51 .185 0.90 view 3/4 pm Upward Mobility 89 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 2.73 .180 0.88 view 3/5 am @Black Snakes 88 0.2 2 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.67 .177 0.86 view 3/5 pm2 @Black Snakes 88 0.2 3 11 0 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 2.88 .181 0.87 view 3/6 pm @SF Carew to Oz 87 0.2 4 10 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.83 .183 0.89 view 3/7 pm2 Des Moines Pride 89 0.2 3 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 2.78 .187 0.90 view 3/8 pm2 @UTAH UTES 89 1.0 3 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.70 .182 0.87 view 3/9 pm Reclusive Novelists 89 1.0 3 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 2.63 .179 0.85 view 3/10 am @Bono's Bunch 88 87 0.2 2 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2.58 .176 0.83 view 3/10 pm2 @Bono's Bunch 88 87 0.1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.56 .175 0.83 view 3/12 am @The.rock 91 1.0 4 12 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.50 .177 0.83 view 3/13 am @The.rock 90 0.1 2 10 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 2.47 .181 0.85 view Season Totals -- 40.0 156 573 1 1 0 14 11 27 5 43 7 0 2.47 .181 0.85 --
3/13/2017 5:23 PM (edited)
He threw a hit every 25.4 pitches at 100, every 18.9 pitches from 90--99, and every 21.2 pitches below 90. But he threw more BB and less SO at 100. And I still think its a small sample.

Though ultimately I think it comes down to what you think it means for someone to be at, say, 87%. Should it necessarily be a disaster for their performance? My impression is that particularly today with all of the medical stuff sportspeople in real life can play games a bit tired or with niggling injuries or whatever and they still typically perform pretty ok. It isn't hard to imagine that maybe by the world series or equivalent most active players are in practice closer to 90% than 100%.
3/13/2017 8:11 PM
In game fatigue is much more important than where a player starts at. That's why starting pitchers with short IP seasons but high IP/G (think Bob Milacki) are so valuable.

Getting on LIVE is tough these days, but the in game fatigue gives these guys a huge advantage vs, say, Joe Nathan after 15, 20, 25 pitches.
3/13/2017 8:18 PM
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Understanding Fatigue Topic