All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Seahawks RULE! SUPER BOWL CHAMPS!
10/1/2013 11:45 AM (edited)
We're having the discussion because you objected to the notion that it was a gift.  This is the first time you've ever heard a pick being called that?  Seattle made a great defensive call, but they got way more than they deserved because Schaub made a terrible decision.  It wasn't just that he threw it, he threw it out into the flat, off of one foot while moving in the opposite direction.  How does taking a sack ensure a turnover?  You mean by having to punt?  When you're up by a touchdown with less than 3 minutes to go and an outstanding defense of your own, yeah, you cut your losses and punt from midfield rather than trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat.
10/1/2013 11:49 AM
Posted by AlCheez on 10/1/2013 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/30/2013 6:36:00 PM (view original):
Seattle still had to make the play but a good QB isn't throwing that pass in that situation.
This.

It was an outstanding defensive call, so they put Schaub in a spot where there were no good options, but he picked the absolute worst - especially given the game situation.
Good way to put it.   All possible outcomes are bad.  
What's the worst?  Pick six.  
What's the best worst?  Sack and punt.

10/1/2013 12:02 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 10/1/2013 11:45:00 AM (view original):
We're having the discussion because you objected to the notion that it was a gift.  This is the first time you've ever heard a pick being called that?  Seattle made a great defensive call, but they got way more than they deserved because Schaub made a terrible decision.  It wasn't just that he threw it, he threw it out into the flat, off of one foot while moving in the opposite direction.  How does taking a sack ensure a turnover?  You mean by having to punt?  When you're up by a touchdown with less than 3 minutes to go and an outstanding defense of your own, yeah, you cut your losses and punt from midfield rather than trying to pull a rabbit out of your hat.
I do object to the notion that it is a gift. 
When the defensive coordinator calls a play to counter an offensive play he knows is coming, gets the immediate pressure he designed and has his best player jumping the primary route, I have a hard time seeing that as a gift.
Of course Schaub could have just slid... should he do that every time he might make a throw that could end in an INT?  That would be a lot of the official stat-keeper trying to figure out where to assign the sack on a QB-giveup.
10/1/2013 12:33 PM
I'll say it again, it was a great play call - but they got a pick 6 out of it because Schaub made a terrible decision. Is that a straight up gift, maybe not, but they got way more than they deserved out of it.

Now you're just going ad absurdum, which is awesome. 
 
No, he shouldn't give himself up every time there's a possibility of a pick.  But when he's up 7, in that spot on the field, that late in the game, with that defense, he shouldn't even think about trying to force something on a play that the defense has blown up.
 
If he had been in a position to make a good throw to the receiver and they had just jumped the route, different story - but he had to go off one leg while moving in the opposite direction just to get a pass off - no excuse for that in that situation, and if the roles had been reversed and Wilson had done that, you wouldn't be raving about the Houston D right now.
10/1/2013 12:35 PM
I'll put it this way:
It looks like there is slightly over a second there from snap to throw.
It is only a fraction of a second from Schaub coming out of the play-action to seeing Chancellor in his face.
Laying down would have had to have been a pre-planned response to make that move; the human-mind just isn't going to move quick enough to make that decision there. 
That being the case, he's either going to throw it to his primary receiver (and the only spot he had an opportunity to throw it, in this case), throw it away for intentional grounding (and that probably ends the same way, since the ball would likely have ended up in near the same place), take a big-hit sack or try to evade.
This is Matt Schaub, so the last option is obviously out (it would have had to have been Wilson, Kaepernick, Pryor, Newtorn and maybe RGIII for that to have been an option).  The Mannings, Brees' & Brady's of the world are probably savy enough to cover the ball well enough as they get hammered, but even they may have thrown it. Of the 1st two options, Option 1 is probably better, since his TE should at least have been able to play a little defense there (not sure if you noticed, but Daniels didn't make much of an effort there), and might have actually fought for the ball and had a shot at the 1st down.
10/1/2013 12:42 PM
And I'll put it this way:  If everything is reversed and Russell Wilson tries to make that throw, you're not giving mad props to the Houston D.
10/1/2013 12:44 PM
I also think you're overstating the hit he's going to take - he's got the defender in front of him and his momentum is taking him away from him.  He's obviously not going to evade, but he's also not going to get completely blown up - he had time to protect the ball.
10/1/2013 12:51 PM
Is this guy Matt Schaub's BFF? Yes it was a good defensive play to get to Schaub so quickly, but throwing that lob across the field was a terrible decision. Schaub could have just fell down before the defender got to him like Brady does, or throw it at someone's feet like Manning.
10/1/2013 12:51 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 10/1/2013 12:42:00 PM (view original):
And I'll put it this way:  If everything is reversed and Russell Wilson tries to make that throw, you're not giving mad props to the Houston D.
I would be giving props to their D, and I would also be disappointed in Russell.  But that also wouldn't have happened... if you watched that game (or pretty well any his other games) you know he would have tried to evade, and probably would have succeeded (may not have made a play with 3-4 defenders where he would have had to evade to). 
Its also a scenario that probably would not come up like that with Wilson; that is just daring him to do what he does best.  With Schaub, if you know the play they are calling, there is basically no downside to that blitz/coverage.
10/1/2013 12:52 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 10/1/2013 12:51:00 PM (view original):
Is this guy Matt Schaub's BFF? Yes it was a good defensive play to get to Schaub so quickly, but throwing that lob across the field was a terrible decision. Schaub could have just fell down before the defender got to him like Brady does, or throw it at someone's feet like Manning.
"or throw it at someone's feet like Manning"  This the first good call on the matter... but then we are talking about the smartest and likely best QB in the NFL.
10/1/2013 12:58 PM
I don't think Manning is the only QB who would have figured out a way to not throw a lame duck into a pack of defenders. 
10/1/2013 1:07 PM
Seriously, there is a point in that play where there are two Texans(QB/receiver) and 6-7 Seahawks in the frame.    QBs are paid to make split second decisions based on what they see.   If he didn't see at least 2-3 Seahawks, I'm not sure where he was looking.   If nothing else, plan for disaster and be pleasantly surprised if you don't face it.    Schaub chose the worst option when faced with disaster. 

Honestly, that reminds me so much of Favre, without the arm strength, when he'd get trapped by the D.   Fling it in there and see what happens.
10/1/2013 1:12 PM
Posted by kcden on 10/1/2013 12:51:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 10/1/2013 12:42:00 PM (view original):
And I'll put it this way:  If everything is reversed and Russell Wilson tries to make that throw, you're not giving mad props to the Houston D.
I would be giving props to their D, and I would also be disappointed in Russell.  But that also wouldn't have happened... if you watched that game (or pretty well any his other games) you know he would have tried to evade, and probably would have succeeded (may not have made a play with 3-4 defenders where he would have had to evade to). 
Its also a scenario that probably would not come up like that with Wilson; that is just daring him to do what he does best.  With Schaub, if you know the play they are calling, there is basically no downside to that blitz/coverage.
I understand Wilson has different abilities so it's not a perfect swap - but the point is a forced throw is a forced throw no matter who makes it - and a forced throw is the last thing you want in the situation the Texans were in.  If he had time to get the throw away, he had time to cover up - it's that simple.
10/1/2013 1:22 PM
I don't watch a lot of Texans games but, if that play is any indication of how Schaub plays the game, I think I now know why "This might be the year the Texans take the next step" but never do.   Good defense will force you to make quick decisions that won't lead to a positive outcome.   But it doesn't have to be the worst outcome either.   And you see a lot of good defense in the playoffs. 
10/1/2013 1:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/1/2013 1:07:00 PM (view original):
Seriously, there is a point in that play where there are two Texans(QB/receiver) and 6-7 Seahawks in the frame.    QBs are paid to make split second decisions based on what they see.   If he didn't see at least 2-3 Seahawks, I'm not sure where he was looking.   If nothing else, plan for disaster and be pleasantly surprised if you don't face it.    Schaub chose the worst option when faced with disaster. 

Honestly, that reminds me so much of Favre, without the arm strength, when he'd get trapped by the D.   Fling it in there and see what happens.
This is how great the Seahawks defense is, they have 3 times as many people on the field.
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