Coaches & Hiring Process Topic

tecwrg
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Posted by mirky on 10/3/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Yes. 50 is average and where almost all coaches should be, imo,although I am not sure that WIS considers 50 as average. What I was trying to say is that there are very few coaches that are "difference" makers and they should be very costly and in short supply with significant impact. There shouldn't be 10 FI with 90 IQ, there shouldn't even be 10 greater than 50. On the other hand I've seen teams miss out on a coach and then get stuck with a Pitching Coach with a 30 IQ and 0 patience and discipline. That, to me, is the wrong way to make coaching negotiations important.
 

Well, this is certainly a different take from the typical "we need more 90+ fielding coaches" demand.
10/3/2012 3:49 PM
MikeT23
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Yeah, not sure I followed it.

HC/BC/PC should be more like FI.   8-10 top flight, 12-15 above average, 4-5 average, 1-3 below average. 
10/3/2012 4:51 PM
burnsy483
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Isn't FI the way it is by accident? People picking up FI to be their BC, thus taking away from the supply.
10/3/2012 4:58 PM
MikeT23
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WifS adjusted by creating more FI in the worlds that lacked because of that.

More than anything, there are no FI to develop in the minors.   HC/BC/PC move up just like players.   FI get created with 45 ratings and no one signs them because there are 36 with 50+.   And, like players, they lose ratings.    So, when FI retire, there's only 30 at 50+ and people begin to complain because 3 teams are stuck with 45 FI.
10/3/2012 5:06 PM
kschoenberg
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Posted by mirky on 10/3/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Yes. 50 is average and where almost all coaches should be, imo,although I am not sure that WIS considers 50 as average. What I was trying to say is that there are very few coaches that are "difference" makers and they should be very costly and in short supply with significant impact. There shouldn't be 10 FI with 90 IQ, there shouldn't even be 10 greater than 50. On the other hand I've seen teams miss out on a coach and then get stuck with a Pitching Coach with a 30 IQ and 0 patience and discipline. That, to me, is the wrong way to make coaching negotiations important.
 

The "average" very well may be 50, but that's the average of all coaches at all levels of baseball (Little League to BLs). So, by the time you get to professional baseball and the BLs an "average" coach shouldn't even be considered. Any coach in pro ball should be way better than the average. However, I do agree with you on how many should be truly great. If you have roughly 50 total fielding coaches in a league I'd suggest 1 - 2 over 90 with high marks in patience and/or discipline. Perhaps another 5 - 6 in the 80+ range and then maybe 20 in the 65 - 79 range with varying strengths.

Of course, that would vary a bit season to season as coaches mature and retire.

I also think that the ratings of other coaches seem bloated. It's way, way too easy to get 85+ HC, BC and PC. The only spot similar to FI is finding coaches with good BR.

10/4/2012 9:03 AM
MikeT23
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No, the "average" BL coach with a primary rating of 50 will still develop players(at least FI).    A 50 FI will develop glove and A/A at about half the rate of a fantastic FI.   IOW, if the player would have gained 4 points under a 90 FI, he'll gain 2 under a 50.   People act as if the world will end if they get a 50 FI.  It won't.   If 2 points means the end of a player's career, he didn't have one anyway.  
10/4/2012 9:08 AM
MikeT23
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MG - three below 75(61/56/54)
Coop -  one below 62(56), five below 70
Mantle - three below 73(53/60/63)
Greenberg - lowest is 60, five below 70
BTP - eleven below 60, lowest is 51

I really expected much worse due to all the handwringing about FI since the invention of HBD.      Every team in all five of my worlds will see fielding development. 
10/4/2012 9:14 AM
kschoenberg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/4/2012 9:08:00 AM (view original):
No, the "average" BL coach with a primary rating of 50 will still develop players(at least FI).    A 50 FI will develop glove and A/A at about half the rate of a fantastic FI.   IOW, if the player would have gained 4 points under a 90 FI, he'll gain 2 under a 50.   People act as if the world will end if they get a 50 FI.  It won't.   If 2 points means the end of a player's career, he didn't have one anyway.  
But 2 points x 4 years of development could be significant.

All in all though, I think the ridiculous number of highly rated HC, BC, PC types is far worse than the shortage of FI. Because once you figure that out you can drop coach hiring to about $6M and end up pretty equal with the guys spending $12M. 

10/4/2012 1:33 PM
MikeT23
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You're not allowed to hire different coaches each season?   What game are you playing?

But, yeah, I've already said FI isn't broken, it's the BC/HC/PC that's broken.   And I already explained why.   No way to develop FI in the minors.   I hire BC with good FI ratings in the minors when I can.  Don't know if that helps but that's what I do.
10/4/2012 1:47 PM
mirky
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Posted by kschoenberg on 10/4/2012 9:04:00 AM (view original):
Posted by mirky on 10/3/2012 3:19:00 PM (view original):

Yes. 50 is average and where almost all coaches should be, imo,although I am not sure that WIS considers 50 as average. What I was trying to say is that there are very few coaches that are "difference" makers and they should be very costly and in short supply with significant impact. There shouldn't be 10 FI with 90 IQ, there shouldn't even be 10 greater than 50. On the other hand I've seen teams miss out on a coach and then get stuck with a Pitching Coach with a 30 IQ and 0 patience and discipline. That, to me, is the wrong way to make coaching negotiations important.
 

The "average" very well may be 50, but that's the average of all coaches at all levels of baseball (Little League to BLs). So, by the time you get to professional baseball and the BLs an "average" coach shouldn't even be considered. Any coach in pro ball should be way better than the average. However, I do agree with you on how many should be truly great. If you have roughly 50 total fielding coaches in a league I'd suggest 1 - 2 over 90 with high marks in patience and/or discipline. Perhaps another 5 - 6 in the 80+ range and then maybe 20 in the 65 - 79 range with varying strengths.

Of course, that would vary a bit season to season as coaches mature and retire.

I also think that the ratings of other coaches seem bloated. It's way, way too easy to get 85+ HC, BC and PC. The only spot similar to FI is finding coaches with good BR.

When I say 50 is average what I mean is that 50 is average for all professional coaches. I have no problem with using 70-80 as average because all major coaches are above average (that is what I was alluding to when I said that I'm not sure that WIS considers 50 as average).Regardless of how we state it, I think that we are in agreement that there should be very few exceptional coaches. I am fine with 1-2 90+ and 5-6 80+, but I believe that only 20 65-79 coaches would be too few because that would leave 4-6 teams with below average coaches (defining "average" as coaches who are above average but not exceptional). I think that number creates an artificial bidding war that doesn't help the game. I don't believe average is that hard to find.

10/4/2012 5:47 PM (edited)
kschoenberg
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Yes, there may be a bidding war, but what that means is you might be able to assemble a coaching staff with some great coaches, some average coaches and unless you're really willing to spend a lot of money some so-so, below average, slacker type coaches. As it is now you can pretty much get a very good to great coache at every slot except FI without spending much money.

Of course, it would be better if there was a real value associated with coaching...but that's another story.


10/5/2012 12:11 PM
MikeT23
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I'm thinking that the only way people will quit whining about coach hiring is if they're assigned 22 of these guys at rollover for 0m:

Coach Season Franchise Level Role Salary
Ralph Hanigan 23 Your Team Any Any $0K 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100

 

10/5/2012 12:48 PM
kschoenberg
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I'd rather have those ratings at SS.
10/5/2012 7:14 PM
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