All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Ripping off ESPN -> Trout vs Cabrera MVP
11/16/2012 9:49 AM
Posted by colonels19 on 11/15/2012 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Peter Pascarelli: A feat not done in 45 years trumps analytics.
Like this, for example.
11/16/2012 10:08 AM

Well, you can't make everyone do things the way you want them to.

Like, in this thread, one individual really had nothing beyond WAR.   I think that's as dumb as screaming "TRIPLE CROWN!!!!"

11/16/2012 10:24 AM
I don't think TC or playoffs should be deciding factors but I think they are fair tiebreakers. If a voter viewed Trout and Cabrera as very close, they tip they're vote to the side of the guy who made history and whose team made the playoffs. If someone uses that logic, I have no problem with it.
11/16/2012 10:47 AM
Posted by Jtpsops on 11/16/2012 10:24:00 AM (view original):
I don't think TC or playoffs should be deciding factors but I think they are fair tiebreakers. If a voter viewed Trout and Cabrera as very close, they tip they're vote to the side of the guy who made history and whose team made the playoffs. If someone uses that logic, I have no problem with it.
I guess the main argument against those lines of reasoning is, do those things make Cabrera more valuable? I would say no, they don't. Trout still had a better year and was a more valuable player.
11/16/2012 10:52 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/16/2012 10:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Jtpsops on 11/16/2012 10:24:00 AM (view original):
I don't think TC or playoffs should be deciding factors but I think they are fair tiebreakers. If a voter viewed Trout and Cabrera as very close, they tip they're vote to the side of the guy who made history and whose team made the playoffs. If someone uses that logic, I have no problem with it.
I guess the main argument against those lines of reasoning is, do those things make Cabrera more valuable? I would say no, they don't. Trout still had a better year and was a more valuable player.
I don't think that anyone here should get into the argument of why one of think helping a team make the playoffs makes you more valuable, as you won't even accept the argument should exist.

I do agree that winning an arbitrary milestone doesn't make anyone more or less valuable. 
11/16/2012 10:56 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/16/2012 10:08:00 AM (view original):

Well, you can't make everyone do things the way you want them to.

Like, in this thread, one individual really had nothing beyond WAR.   I think that's as dumb as screaming "TRIPLE CROWN!!!!"

WAR is at least an attempt to show how many wins you add to a team by playing for them.  Which, on it's face, would describe value.  I know you have doubts on how accurate WAR is, which is probably why you think that way.
11/16/2012 10:59 AM
That said, I don't think it's smart for anyone to look at WAR and determine who is more valuable based on just the number, regardless of how accurate you think it is.
11/16/2012 11:44 AM
worst ballot of the year? John Lowe.

1) Cabrera, 2) Trout, 3) Johnson 4) Beltre, 5) Jeter, 6) Hamilton, 7) Rodney, 8) Cespedes, 9) Fielder, 10) Ibanez


11/16/2012 11:57 AM
I wonder what Cano ever did to him.

And IBANEZ!
11/16/2012 12:59 PM
Jeter 5th?  WTF?   He was definitely #3.
11/16/2012 1:03 PM
A lot of the new baseball metrics are overcomplicated garbage
11/16/2012 1:18 PM
This is definitely "old school" but two singles, a stolen base and a great defensive play won't beat me in one game.  A guy like Cabrera will.    If Trout's stats overpowered Cabrera's, I wouldn't argue Granderson/Trout, that's one thing.   But they don't.  So "Who would I rather face in the 9th?" plays a part.
11/16/2012 1:23 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 11/16/2012 1:03:00 PM (view original):
A lot of the new baseball metrics are overcomplicated garbage
Even if you leave out new stats it's pretty easy to see that Trout was better.
11/16/2012 1:25 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 11/16/2012 1:03:00 PM (view original):
A lot of the new baseball metrics are overcomplicated garbage
Conceived by statnerds so they can say "Look how smart I am!!"

Most probably don't even understand baseball.   Plenty of HBD players are clueless to actual baseball but they can work numbers.
11/16/2012 1:43 PM
The narrative that this was Advanced Metrics vs. the relative merits of the Triple Crown is reductionist, at best.

I've heard that there were actually a lot of old timey scouts who liked Trout a lot more because he had "that look" about him when he played.

The stupidest, but most likely, argument for why Cabrera got so many more votes is that he was "due" whereas Trout will "have his time".

That's garbage, but at least it's a viable narrative.
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