All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > What really eats me up...
11/26/2012 2:47 PM
He's right.  Everybody else is wrong.

Got it.
11/26/2012 2:55 PM

C'mon todd, all you have to do is take human behavior/reaction out of any plan/theory and it will work perfectly.  Don't you get it?  Only a socialist could possibly "get it" about Economics 101.

I had planned to address the many errors in bis's many analyses when I had time, but I can see right now it would be fruitless.

And to bis, claiming you understand a lot about economics doesn't make it so.  It's merely an unsupported assertion (like many of your points).  It becomes even less supported the more you spout about the theory absent of human interaction within it.

11/26/2012 2:59 PM
This isn't a case of one person versus "everybody else" or anything even remotely close to that. There are plenty of people who support both sides of the capitalism versus socialism debate, whether or not they happen to be willing to voice their opinion here. So there is no "everybody else is wrong" because there isn't an "everybody else" in the first place.

Honestly though I understand how frustrating it is for people to disagree with me on this type of subject and actually argue their points because this is an area where I excel. You think you know what's right in your opinion, and you're entitled to have your own opinion , but it's not going to be easy to argue with someone who has far greater knowledge and experience than you do in that area.

So if you can't effectively argue your opinion against someone whose knowledge and experience makes them an expert compared to you, don't resort to fallacies to try to compensate. Don't make personal attacks. Don't try to argue that more people agree with you or certain people here do. Just accept you won't win the argument and be done with it.

I'm sure you have more knowledge than I do in some area, so it isn't a terrible thing when it goes the other way. We all have areas of expertise and areas we're not as good at, and there is always someone who is better than we are even in the areas we're good at.

That's why knowing when to cut your losses is perhaps one of the best skills anyone can have.





11/26/2012 3:05 PM
11/26/2012 3:08 PM
11/26/2012 3:09 PM
Posted by bistiza on 11/26/2012 2:59:00 PM (view original):
This isn't a case of one person versus "everybody else" or anything even remotely close to that. There are plenty of people who support both sides of the capitalism versus socialism debate, whether or not they happen to be willing to voice their opinion here. So there is no "everybody else is wrong" because there isn't an "everybody else" in the first place.

Honestly though I understand how frustrating it is for people to disagree with me on this type of subject and actually argue their points because this is an area where I excel. You think you know what's right in your opinion, and you're entitled to have your own opinion , but it's not going to be easy to argue with someone who has far greater knowledge and experience than you do in that area.

So if you can't effectively argue your opinion against someone whose knowledge and experience makes them an expert compared to you, don't resort to fallacies to try to compensate. Don't make personal attacks. Don't try to argue that more people agree with you or certain people here do. Just accept you won't win the argument and be done with it.

I'm sure you have more knowledge than I do in some area, so it isn't a terrible thing when it goes the other way. We all have areas of expertise and areas we're not as good at, and there is always someone who is better than we are even in the areas we're good at.

That's why knowing when to cut your losses is perhaps one of the best skills anyone can have.





Who are you addressing this to?
11/26/2012 3:15 PM
Everyone. Duh.  He's the Warren Buffet of Wifs.
11/26/2012 3:17 PM
Here's an area that "everyone" apparently has more knowledge of than biz:  Human nature

11/26/2012 3:19 PM
C'mon todd, all you have to do is take human behavior/reaction out of any plan/theory and it will work perfectly. 

No one is suggesting removing human behavior or reactions from the equation. In fact, both socialism and capitalism rely on human behavior and reactions in order to function properly on any level. When the proper incentives are put in place, either system can be seen as at least moderately effective (depending upon one's viewpoint).
I had planned to address the many errors in bis's many analyses when I had time, but I can see right now it would be fruitless.

Feel free to try, but as you suggest, it is probably fruitless. In the same way an armchair quarterback may think he can tell a real quarterback how to play better, I'm sure many people would love to play armchair economist here. I'm glad someone realizes that is pointless.
And to bis, claiming you understand a lot about economics doesn't make it so.  It's merely an unsupported assertion (like many of your points).  It becomes even less supported the more you spout about the theory absent of human interaction within it.
There is no way to support my knowledge of economics if you are determine to think otherwise. This is merely an internet message board - I have nothing to prove to any of you about my personal background in economics (or anything else for that matter). If you want to think I'm lying, that's up to you, but I'm telling the truth.

My supposed unsupported assertions have enough support to defeat all arguments against them so far, so I'd say they are doing quite fine. If anyone had actually presented an argument that threatened something I've said, I might support it more, but I'm not going to go out of my way to provide extra support when it isn't needed.

Finally, I never said human interaction was taken out of the theory. As I said, human behavior is a key component of any economic system, including both capitalism and socialism. In fact both systems when executed within the proper framework will provide incentives to modify collective human behavior  in order to maximize their effectiveness. Most Americans understand how this works in capitalism because it is a system they are familiar with. Most do not understand how it works in socialism simply because they aren't familiar with it. It sounds like you're in the same boat.

You might want to do some research and read more about socialism and specifically about how it uses human interaction and behavior as a key part of its proper function. Try to think outside of the box of capitalism. If you actually do the research and read, look at incentives within a proper socialist system which are designed to encourage behavior that supports the socialist system. Capitalism does the same thing but gives incentives which encourages behavior which supports the capitalist system.  That's how both systems work - but the incentives and the behaviors are different when it comes to the human element.

I could go on about this all day, but I have other things to do. I'm just trying to provide some food for thought.
11/26/2012 3:26 PM
OK, I'll bite.

Which country has the most successful socialist economy?  And why does it work for them?
11/26/2012 3:43 PM
Your question is moot. It would be like asking which country has the most success at dealing with extraterrestrials. No country (that we know of) is dealing with extraterrestrials, so you can't determine which would do best if they did.

In the same way, there are no countries which currently utilize socialism within its proper construct for anything close to optimal success, and as a result, you can't determine which would do best if they did.

The problem is most attempts at socialism (or what was thought of as socialism) have not been executed properly. There have been major holes in the systems used by countries who have tried. If there were equal sized holes in the structure of capitalism in any country, it too would fail in massive fashion. Any economic system set up without the proper framework is destined for failure.
11/26/2012 3:53 PM
So your "proper framework" of an effective socialist economy is just a theory, with no empirical evidence to support it how effective it really would work in practice.

"My supposed unsupported assertions have enough support to defeat all arguments against them so far, so I'd say they are doing quite fine. If anyone had actually presented an argument that threatened something I've said, I might support it more, but I'm not going to go out of my way to provide extra support when it isn't needed."

Yet you argue that your assertions "have enough support to defeat all arguments".  Without the empirical evidence of a successful implementation, what exactly is giving you "enough support"?
11/26/2012 4:18 PM
So your "proper framework" of an effective socialist economy is just a theory, with no empirical evidence to support it how effective it really would work in practice.

First, proper framework doesn't go in quotes. Every economic system only functions under the proper framework.

Second, it's not my framework.

Third, there is plenty of evidence to suggest a proper socialist system would work. All possible variables of economic systems do not need to already exist in order to evaluate their effectiveness.
Without the empirical evidence of a successful implementation, what exactly is giving you "enough support"?

Again with the moot questions.

What you are asking is like asking "where is the evidence for the existence of gravity or the wind". Much like those things, the evidence can be seen in the effect of the various economic variables on existing systems rather than by seeing the actual economic system itself. You can't see gravity or the wind, but you can see their effects on the environment. You can't see an economic system which doesn't exist, but you can see how each variable can effect existing systems and extrapolate it.
11/26/2012 4:20 PM
Yep.  An alias just jerking people around.  No belief system just an internet trolling method that's very successful.
11/26/2012 4:24 PM
TY
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