Good enough to start at PG? Topic

In the triangle/press?

ATH - 50
SPD - 90
REB - 12
DEF - 25
BLK - 1
LP - 15
PER - 30
BH - 75
Pass - 70
FT - 70%

The DEF is awfully low for me to feel good about starting anywhere, and if I played man I'm not sure I'd even consider it, but the ATH/SPD/BH/Pass are pretty solid and I could really use a PG.
12/9/2012 1:20 AM
i would start him at PG but that's just me.
12/9/2012 1:40 AM
What level? At DI starting him would be highly questionable.  At DII he'd probably be solid.  At DIII he'd be a star.
12/9/2012 11:02 AM
I'd make him the primary back up for both guard spots.  He's going to be in danger of fouling out every game with that defense.  Could get him more time if he's playing against the less talented bench.
12/9/2012 3:29 PM
I don't notice a huge correlation between fouls and def.  That said, I would still bring him off the bench in D2 or start him against weak offensive PGs in D3.
12/9/2012 3:52 PM
I think he would be a pretty good pg for D3. Against good offensive players he might be in danger of fouling out in some games. When I first picked up Elmhurst, I had a sim recruit with similar speed and def numbers, and as an upperclassmen he was averaging something around 1.6-2 steals per game and ~2.5 fouls per game. He made it through most games, although I wasn't playing the toughest schedule at that time.  I would guess against a tougher schedule he would probably average more like 3 fouls a game. I think I moved him back and forth between starting and back-up PG to avoid bad match-ups.
12/9/2012 5:37 PM
He'll probably average 3+ fouls a game, but when he can stay on the court he'll be fine. Isack, in a press there is a HUGE correlation between fouls and def in my experience.
12/9/2012 6:07 PM
Whoops, I thought i saw he was running man. In any event, I have noticed ath/spd play a larger role in steals and fouls and def plays a larger role in fg%.  Just my .02.
12/9/2012 6:37 PM
In DIII this guy is a complete stud, and I'd see no risk starting him every game since you're not playing man to man. In fact unless you have a team full of studs just like him I think it would be a mistake not to start him.

At DII, he's still a good PG, and again since it's not man to man, I'd start him at PG every time. Again, unless you have a team full of guys who are better, there is no reason not to start him.

At DI, it's a question. If he's going to improve at DEF and you've got a better option right now, I'd bring him off the bench for a season and then start him the next year (or even in two if you have a better option for two years).

12/10/2012 8:55 AM
I don't run or know the press, but I wouldn't consider him to start and I would be reluctant to have him back up the point even on my zone teams.   I just might put too much emphasis on defense, though.  At DIII, I don't want a starter under 45 defense unless he is just incredibly awesome at something else.  At DII I don't want a starter with a defense under 60 unless they are incredibly awesome at something.  But then again, my resume isn't very impressive

If he had perimeter to match the speed, then I would consider him.  Looking again, the combo of Sp/Bh/Pa is really nice.  Maybe for a press I would start him

12/10/2012 9:56 AM
milwood he is incredibly awesome as a total package with the exception of defense. There is no way I could overlook his abilities as a whole for the lack of defense unless I"m playing man to man (which I usually am) and even then I'd just make him wait a year or two so he could improve (and if he's already red on that 25 def, then he'd be a great career backup).
12/10/2012 10:21 AM
bistiza, you can't just say he's incredibly awesome if he can't stay on the court. If you start this guy in the press - and his offensive abilities are very nice but not super elite - he will get into foul trouble against teams with good guard play much of the time. That in turn taxes your bench and wears down the entire team. With 2 guys behind him able to play point guard then this guy is great because the times he picks up 2 fouls in the first few minutes of the game won't hurt you as bad, but if not he is a very trick or treat kind of player. Even with 40s defense he doesn't jump to "incredibly awesome" status at all. Ideally, this guy is one of the better backup PGs in all of DIII, but if you have to start him you cross your fingers and hope he can stay on the court.
12/10/2012 12:13 PM (edited)
I haven't noticed the problem of low defense causing foul trouble except in a man to man defense. Perhaps you think it's supposed to happen like that, with lower defensive abilities meaning more fouls, but I don't think the sim is as realistic as your thought process.

I think too many people forget that DIII players are inherently flawed somewhere - that's the nature of DIII. Keeping that in mind, I would take this guy to start at PG on every single DIII team I've ever had, which mostly play man to man defense. I would love to have this guy on every team, every year, all the time. That means he's "incredibly awesome" to me no matter his DEF at 25.

Bottom line: He's elite for DIII in so many areas you take your chances on whether he stays in the game or not and you get him for as long as you can.

12/10/2012 12:21 PM
in d3 he can be your PG without even a hesitation. in d2 hes solid for a lower end NT team trying to get prestige up. 

to those who have commented on def and fouls in the press - defense is pretty damn big for fouls in the press. its not like this guy is going to be a foulbot and automatically foul out every game, but he is definitely going to have foul trouble. def is probably the primary attributed correlated with fouling in the press.
12/10/2012 12:51 PM
Actually, bistiza, my 3 DIII teams all play press and everything I said is from personal experience and observation. As a starter this guy will get in foul trouble in a lot of games. Not every game, but especially against good competition it can definitely cost you. If you want him fine, but this guy could only play an important role for me on 1 of my 3 DIII teams right now, so I don't see the incredibly awesomeness. But hey, if we all saw all guys exactly the same, the game wouldn't be as much fun now would it? :)

*edit: for the record, give a slight uptick in scoring ratings in exchange for a slight downtick in PG ratings and I'd have no problem starting him at SG. It's just that ideally I want more consistency from the PG position than other spots and I want to know what I'm getting from there game in and game out. If I can avoid it, I want to know my PG rotation is not going to come back to haunt me in the middle of a game, also because I'm more strict about who and what ratings I let play PG than any other position. Maybe the OP has a different view of what he likes out of the PG spot.
12/10/2012 2:05 PM (edited)
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