All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > High-Capacity Assault Weapons
1/18/2013 5:55 PM
Or you tell him to register it.   If he's a law-abiding citizen who simply likes to fire off 100 rounds in 14 seconds, he'll do it.   If he's not, he's probably going to shoot the cop, his old lady or the ATF agent when they approach him. 
1/18/2013 6:07 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Or you tell him to register it.   If he's a law-abiding citizen who simply likes to fire off 100 rounds in 14 seconds, he'll do it.   If he's not, he's probably going to shoot the cop, his old lady or the ATF agent when they approach him. 
Registering a gun doesn't prevent that gun from killing people. Taking it away does. Making it illegal allows us to lock up people who don't turn it in.
1/18/2013 6:08 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2012 4:10:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I don't think Joe Citizen needs HCAW.   I'm just saying someone intent on killing people will find a way.
So if you conceded here that Joe citizen doesn't need one, what's the problem again?
1/18/2013 6:13 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Or you tell him to register it.   If he's a law-abiding citizen who simply likes to fire off 100 rounds in 14 seconds, he'll do it.   If he's not, he's probably going to shoot the cop, his old lady or the ATF agent when they approach him. 
Registering a gun doesn't prevent that gun from killing people. Taking it away does. Making it illegal allows us to lock up people who don't turn it in.
Making guns illegal doesn't prevent criminals from getting them. 

Do you understand the criminal element?
1/18/2013 6:15 PM
Posted by mchalesarmy on 1/18/2013 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2012 4:10:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, I don't think Joe Citizen needs HCAW.   I'm just saying someone intent on killing people will find a way.
So if you conceded here that Joe citizen doesn't need one, what's the problem again?

I could say "Read the 35 other pages" but I'm in a giving mood.

I have no problem outlawing the manufacturing of AW.
I have no problem requiring the registration of any firearm.

I have a problem with a government run collection of current firearms.

1/18/2013 6:24 PM
I remember, but am still at a loss as to why, if you don't think anyone "needs" a HCAW, and we finally smarten up enough to realize this as a collective, what is the problem with getting them out of circulation as much as is possible?

Because we weren't smart enough to outlaw them sooner, anyone who legally purchased one should get to keep theirs? I just don't get this mindset.

When the "legal pot" stuff was all the rave (k2 or something), many people bought it legally. Then most states made it illegal. Since it was made illegal, you could get in trouble for possessing it, even though you bought it legally.

Is this different? Or do you believe that the legally purchased fake pot should have been allowed to be possessed until the purchaser smoked it all and he should just not be allowed to buy any more going forward?
1/18/2013 6:25 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Or you tell him to register it.   If he's a law-abiding citizen who simply likes to fire off 100 rounds in 14 seconds, he'll do it.   If he's not, he's probably going to shoot the cop, his old lady or the ATF agent when they approach him. 
Registering a gun doesn't prevent that gun from killing people. Taking it away does. Making it illegal allows us to lock up people who don't turn it in.
Making guns illegal doesn't prevent criminals from getting them. 

Do you understand the criminal element?
Of course not, but it allows us to arrest someone in violation of the law.

See if you can follow:

AR-15 not illegal. Can't arrest the owner until he shoots someone with it.
AR-15 illegal. Can arrest the owner as soon as it's discovered he has it, hopefully before he shoots someone.




1/18/2013 6:31 PM
Posted by mchalesarmy on 1/18/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
I remember, but am still at a loss as to why, if you don't think anyone "needs" a HCAW, and we finally smarten up enough to realize this as a collective, what is the problem with getting them out of circulation as much as is possible?

Because we weren't smart enough to outlaw them sooner, anyone who legally purchased one should get to keep theirs? I just don't get this mindset.

When the "legal pot" stuff was all the rave (k2 or something), many people bought it legally. Then most states made it illegal. Since it was made illegal, you could get in trouble for possessing it, even though you bought it legally.

Is this different? Or do you believe that the legally purchased fake pot should have been allowed to be possessed until the purchaser smoked it all and he should just not be allowed to buy any more going forward?
Yes, consumables are consumables.   If someone purchased 50000 lbs of syn pot, yeah, I have no problem with them smoking it up.  

To put it another way, I have guns.  Legal guns.   No AW.    If I'm required to register all of them, rifles/shotguns, I'm fine with that.   If the govt decides one of them is illegal, under new laws, I would not surrender it.    Now I'm a criminal.

That's wrong.
1/18/2013 6:35 PM
No, it's not. The gun is now illegal. Keep it at your own risk.
1/18/2013 6:35 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 5:55:00 PM (view original):
Or you tell him to register it.   If he's a law-abiding citizen who simply likes to fire off 100 rounds in 14 seconds, he'll do it.   If he's not, he's probably going to shoot the cop, his old lady or the ATF agent when they approach him. 
Registering a gun doesn't prevent that gun from killing people. Taking it away does. Making it illegal allows us to lock up people who don't turn it in.
Making guns illegal doesn't prevent criminals from getting them. 

Do you understand the criminal element?
Of course not, but it allows us to arrest someone in violation of the law.

See if you can follow:

AR-15 not illegal. Can't arrest the owner until he shoots someone with it.
AR-15 illegal. Can arrest the owner as soon as it's discovered he has it, hopefully before he shoots someone.




Followed perfectly.

Can you follow this?

Someone capable of taking another human's life cares not about the legality of his weapon of choice.

So, with that, I'll ask again.   Do you understand the criminal element?
1/18/2013 6:36 PM
We're not making the guns illegal to scare people away from committing crimes.
1/18/2013 6:37 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:35:00 PM (view original):
No, it's not. The gun is now illegal. Keep it at your own risk.
And that's where we differ.    Don't give me a right, because no one has any rights, and then take it away. 
1/18/2013 6:37 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/18/2013 6:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:35:00 PM (view original):
No, it's not. The gun is now illegal. Keep it at your own risk.
And that's where we differ.    Don't give me a right, because no one has any rights, and then take it away. 
What?
1/18/2013 6:38 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 1/18/2013 6:37:00 PM (view original):
We're not making the guns illegal to scare people away from committing crimes.
No, you're hoping to make them illegal because you're overreacting to a horrible incident.

Crazy people are crazy people.    Has nothing to do with a gun.
1/18/2013 6:58 PM
Not overreacting. Making certain behavior illegal allows us to prosecute people before they actually kill someone.


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