starter to reliever Topic

I'd like to get the board thoughts on pitchers moving between roles. in my opinion, hbd has to many low stamina pitchers. In reality, most pitchers begin their minor league careers as starters and only move to the pen when their stuff will no longer cut it as a starter. Moving to the pen allows them to use fewer pitches and to be more 'max' effort when they throw. How could this be better accounted for in the game?
12/26/2012 5:01 PM
You can do this now.  One season, for one of my teams, I used an entire bullpen made up of low stamina SP type pitchers.
12/26/2012 6:37 PM
I know, I often do this, but their effectiveness does not change. If like to see a system where certain pitchers are far more effective in relief roles. most ML relievers were starters until they neared the big leagues. College closers are the exceptiion rather than rule. I would like something where virtually all young pitchers have a stamina of at least 50, but maybe relievers only use their two best pitches and see a temporary bump in VE our CO when used for short outings, say when max pitch count is under 35.
12/27/2012 9:53 AM
Or you could use your imagination in your simulated game. Assume the guys in the draft you see projected as relievers were starters in college and your scouts have already decided to make the move to the pen. Voila, problem solved.
12/27/2012 10:49 AM
So, in essence, you want to make pitchers better with role changes.   And you don't see an issue with that?
12/27/2012 11:08 AM
Oh no, I see lots of problems with it, hence my asking fur others opinions. What I want us to see the game continue to get better at mimicking the real thing. there are very few payees that are pegged as relievers early in their careers. Most transition from starting and lots if good relievers struggle when they try to start. Take Jeff Smardja, what ratings should a player life him have?

If course you'd have to make some related changes to keep the right balance, but I think the starter vs reliever decision should be one that isn't easy. Right now, it's made for you 90% if the time and the other 10% you have to get creative with those 60 stamina guys.
12/27/2012 8:32 PM
OK, I at least think I understand what you're asking now.  I thought it was just a "MORE!!!  BETTER!!" request.

Essentially the player development would need to change based on usage.    i.e. a 24/55 DUR/STM combo being used as a RP would see an increase in DUR, a decrease in STM and, to be more realistic, drop a pitch.

This isn't really the worst idea on earth but I imagine it would be a MF to program.   Owners like me tend to change pitcher's roles fairly regularly during the season.  

Perhaps, if they ever actually do an Arizona Fall League that's been mentioned a million times, that would be the time to make the change.   Send him off to AZ with the instruction to make him a RP.  
12/28/2012 8:29 AM
I think there are two really good ideas here.

The first idea is for the HBD calculation of "pitch 1-5 combined goodness" to differ based on role.  My current understanding is that the "combined pitches value" takes all the pitches into account.  P1 is weighted most heavily.  The other pitches contribute less and less.  A P5 can be of some value, even at a relatively low number, as a show-me pitch.  The formula is the same for all pitchers, regardless of role.

I propose that the calculation be changed so the "combined pitches value" be calculated differently for starters and short relievers.  Starters are essentially penalized if they don't have at least 3 good pitches (in the real world, fastball, breaking ball and change up, but in HBD any 3 pitches will do).  Having a fourth and fifth pitch is of significant value.  

For short relievers, however, only the first two pitches are of any value.  The other pitches are not used in the calculation.

The calculation for a pitcher need not be one of the other.  Depending on the pitch count set for a pitcher in the Player Settings, the formula could slowly move from being based on a starter's repertoire to a closer's.

The net effect would - hopefully - be neutral.  Starting pitchers getting by on only one or two good pitches would be penalized.  Starting pitches with 4 or 5 decent pitches would do better.  Similarly, closers with only one or two good pitches would be rewarded because the calculation would be based on only the pitches they'd thrown in real life (real life closers aren't throwing their 5th best pitch), while closers that had been taking advantage of 5 mediocre pitchers would be punished.

See my new suggestion for the second idea.
12/28/2012 7:48 PM (edited)
Yeah, something along that line
1/2/2013 11:24 AM
Maybe it's a once a season thing in spring training. You click a button and the player converts from starter to reliever or vice versa. Not sure if just flipping stamina and durability would work but it would be a start.
1/11/2013 9:42 AM
starter to reliever Topic

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