All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Patriots 9.5 points favorites over Ravens
1/21/2013 2:12 PM
here's how the game played out in my house.....


Welker drops the first down pass......the ball hit him right between the hands, right between the numbers...a plenty good throw

I say " missing that chance to go up two scores is going to cost them the game"


it does......obviously, other things happened to help out, but if they go up two scores there I feel pretty good about what happens after that
1/21/2013 2:19 PM
Couldn't the same be said for failing to get an attempt or two in the endzone before settling for a FG?

I felt like that was a turning point in the game.   Of course, there's no guarantee that they get a TD to go up 17-7 but I felt the Ravens dodged a bullet.    Even Harbaugh said "I'm not worried about anything.  We're down by 6" during his halftime interview.
1/21/2013 2:21 PM
your lunacy is adorable.....however, the throw to Hernandez with two free blitzers coming in untouched was a great throw, and to deny that is a failure to accept reality...which then in turn, reduces the effect of the rest of your rant

I don't remember a play where anyone got to Brady untouched. Either I missed the play in question (I doubt it as I watched the whole game) or you saw it much differently than I did.
also, calling someone a terrible human being while celebrating that person's physical injury seems, hmmmmm....layered in hypocrisy

First, I didn't celebrate anyone's injury. Being glad someone isn't playing and "celebrating" are two different things.

Second, even if I had "celebrated" the injury, that wouldn't make me terrible. It would make me judgmental, and just about everyone is judgmental, so in that case I'd be no worse than most everyone else.

edsortails,

Brady was completely confused. Some analysts tried to make the excuse (making an excuse for Brady - no one ever does that *rolls eyes*) that he was going to take the field goal anyway and wanted to line up to see if the defenders would leave someone uncovered, but by the way he was looking around like a deer in the headlights, that seems less probable than he didn't know what he was doing.

If there was any penalty, it should have been against Brady for unsportsmanlike conduct when he tried to kick Reed.
1/21/2013 2:23 PM
honestly, I don't think Baltimore did too much to actually win that game other than be there and not screw things up.....

Pollard's hit was a monster, and Flacco hit some nice throws once Talib was gone (although throwing to Boldin being covered by a guy that most Patriots fans had never heard of before the game is something ANY QB should be able to do), but that's about it...

1/21/2013 2:26 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2013 2:19:00 PM (view original):
Couldn't the same be said for failing to get an attempt or two in the endzone before settling for a FG?

I felt like that was a turning point in the game.   Of course, there's no guarantee that they get a TD to go up 17-7 but I felt the Ravens dodged a bullet.    Even Harbaugh said "I'm not worried about anything.  We're down by 6" during his halftime interview.
I felt that when the Patriots held on the opening Ravens drive of the second half, it negated how big of a factor that could have been.....


a few chances at 7 would have been nice, but they did score and got off the field with a chance to go up two scores in the 3rd quarter....that is where the game turned
1/21/2013 2:27 PM
Boldin just outmuscled that guy all day.   I'm not sure "Throw it up and let Boldin catch it" is that much of a throw.

Anyway, if it was more than 5 yards on 3rd down, I didn't think the Pats had a chance at a first down.   I don't know exactly who to blame for that but other than little hitches or hooks, NE was never open.
1/21/2013 2:31 PM
1---then you missed the play because it happened

2---you said 'glad he's out with an injury' = celebrating an injury

3---read the post, I said Brady was expecting a penalty on HIS karate kick...this implies the infraction being on him....
1/21/2013 2:59 PM
Posted by toddcommish on 1/21/2013 1:55:00 PM (view original):
To my eye, Welker looked gassed during the 4th quarter.  The no-huddle also takes a toll on the offense, especially when you're the slot guy running pass routes all day.  Brady doesn't care... he just stands back there.  It was laughable to see the 4th down play where Brady decided he couldn't outrun the 320-lb Ngata to the sticks. 
One of the Welker "drops" was right after he got absolutely smoked by the Ravens defense.  In fact he got crushed all game long as did all of the Patriots receivers and backs.

And sadly, I don't think Brady could outrun Ngata.  He is a friekishly fast dude for his size.

1/21/2013 3:14 PM
Posted by moranis on 1/21/2013 2:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 1/21/2013 1:55:00 PM (view original):
To my eye, Welker looked gassed during the 4th quarter.  The no-huddle also takes a toll on the offense, especially when you're the slot guy running pass routes all day.  Brady doesn't care... he just stands back there.  It was laughable to see the 4th down play where Brady decided he couldn't outrun the 320-lb Ngata to the sticks. 
One of the Welker "drops" was right after he got absolutely smoked by the Ravens defense.  In fact he got crushed all game long as did all of the Patriots receivers and backs.

And sadly, I don't think Brady could outrun Ngata.  He is a friekishly fast dude for his size.

Welkers 1st drop happened in the 1st quarter.  Brady ducked a blitzer and moved up in the pocket.  It was supposed to be a short route, but Welker beat his defender and ran a slant towards the sideline.  Brady threw a nice deep ball and it hit Welkers stretched out hands.  A catch he's made TONS of times before.

That 3rd down drop wasn't after he got crushed.  He got crushed on that 1st down catch in the 4th.  He did get hit a lot....but that's how Welker plays. 
1/21/2013 5:45 PM
I have no doubt that nomar is stroking it to his life-size Brady cut-out right now.

"Brady ducked a blitzer......"
"Brady threw a nice deep ball and it hit Welkers......"


1/22/2013 10:20 AM
So I'm not going to list the advanced stats for WRs because they're incredibly quarterback dependent.  Larry Fitzgerald finished last this year.  They don't do a good job of separating the QB dependency from the receiver.

Look, if the argument was "Brady's clutch-ness is overhyped.  He has the 3 rings, but he's also lost many playoff games in which his team was favored" I don't know if I'd disagree.  The argument that was presented to me, and I'm saying isn't true, was that Brady has been blessed with offensive weapons his entire career and was carried to 3 Super Bowl wins.  In fact, he's had below average to poor offensive lines in his first 2 wins.  He's had below-average receivers until the Moss/Welker era.  He took a team that Drew Bledsoe (a great QB, still in his prime, who made the Pro Bowl his first year with Buffalo in 2002), struggled with, and won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.  Throughout his career he led his offense to more success than anyone anticipated.

To the argument of "Brady is a dink and dunker and can't throw the ball down the field" I'd give 2 arguments - 1) If you don't have a deep threat, how are you throwing the ball down the field with confidence? We're blaming Brady for hitting the open man 8 yards in front of him, rather than forcing something to a covered David Patten 30 yards down the field? Yes, when you get a deep threat like Randy Moss, it's easier to complete passes down the field (at a record level).  2) The argument just isn't true.  Brady's yards per attempt is 7.5 for his career, compared to Manning's 7.6.  If you want to take out the record-setting passing attack year (again...Tom Brady was part of a passing attack that set records), it drops to 7.4.  His yards per completion is 11.8 for his career, compared to Manning's 11.7.  If you take out the first Moss/Welker year, it drops a little but still rounds up to 11.8, which is higher than Manning's.  It's interesting that Brady dinks and dunks all the time, yet his yards per catch are higher than Peyton's, who can throw the ball into tight spaces down the field.  And again, let's remember that Manning had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne for the majority of his career.

The ironic thing is, I hate the Pats.  I respect Brady, but root for him to lose.  I never thought I'd be defending him this hard, but when someone says he was carried to 3 Super Bowl wins, I have to bring up the facts.
    
1/22/2013 10:23 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/21/2013 5:45:00 PM (view original):
I have no doubt that nomar is stroking it to his life-size Brady cut-out right now.

"Brady ducked a blitzer......"
"Brady threw a nice deep ball and it hit Welkers......"


Wow...stooping down to primes standards.  Well done Mikey.
1/22/2013 10:25 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/22/2013 10:20:00 AM (view original):
So I'm not going to list the advanced stats for WRs because they're incredibly quarterback dependent.  Larry Fitzgerald finished last this year.  They don't do a good job of separating the QB dependency from the receiver.

Look, if the argument was "Brady's clutch-ness is overhyped.  He has the 3 rings, but he's also lost many playoff games in which his team was favored" I don't know if I'd disagree.  The argument that was presented to me, and I'm saying isn't true, was that Brady has been blessed with offensive weapons his entire career and was carried to 3 Super Bowl wins.  In fact, he's had below average to poor offensive lines in his first 2 wins.  He's had below-average receivers until the Moss/Welker era.  He took a team that Drew Bledsoe (a great QB, still in his prime, who made the Pro Bowl his first year with Buffalo in 2002), struggled with, and won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years.  Throughout his career he led his offense to more success than anyone anticipated.

To the argument of "Brady is a dink and dunker and can't throw the ball down the field" I'd give 2 arguments - 1) If you don't have a deep threat, how are you throwing the ball down the field with confidence? We're blaming Brady for hitting the open man 8 yards in front of him, rather than forcing something to a covered David Patten 30 yards down the field? Yes, when you get a deep threat like Randy Moss, it's easier to complete passes down the field (at a record level).  2) The argument just isn't true.  Brady's yards per attempt is 7.5 for his career, compared to Manning's 7.6.  If you want to take out the record-setting passing attack year (again...Tom Brady was part of a passing attack that set records), it drops to 7.4.  His yards per completion is 11.8 for his career, compared to Manning's 11.7.  If you take out the first Moss/Welker year, it drops a little but still rounds up to 11.8, which is higher than Manning's.  It's interesting that Brady dinks and dunks all the time, yet his yards per catch are higher than Peyton's, who can throw the ball into tight spaces down the field.  And again, let's remember that Manning had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne for the majority of his career.

The ironic thing is, I hate the Pats.  I respect Brady, but root for him to lose.  I never thought I'd be defending him this hard, but when someone says he was carried to 3 Super Bowl wins, I have to bring up the facts.
    
Don't mix facts with the hard evidence that biz has been showing!  Not to mention Mike's backwards arguments.
1/22/2013 10:48 AM
He took a team that Drew Bledsoe (a great QB, still in his prime, who made the Pro Bowl his first year with Buffalo in 2002), struggled with, and won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years. Throughout his career he led his offense to more success than anyone anticipated.

 
Drew Bledsoe was not great.  However, he took the Patriots to the Super Bowl in 97...  and many of those key players were around in 2001 (McGinest, Troy Brown, et al), and that's the group that Brady inherited.

Check the numbers.  Curtis Martin had 1152 yards in 1997.  Antowain Smith had 1157 yards in 2001.  Don't try to portray the Patriots as being an empty lineup that Brady somehow transformed.  They were already a playoff team with Super Bowl aspirations when he took over.
1/22/2013 10:59 AM
Posted by toddcommish on 1/22/2013 10:48:00 AM (view original):
He took a team that Drew Bledsoe (a great QB, still in his prime, who made the Pro Bowl his first year with Buffalo in 2002), struggled with, and won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years. Throughout his career he led his offense to more success than anyone anticipated.

 
Drew Bledsoe was not great.  However, he took the Patriots to the Super Bowl in 97...  and many of those key players were around in 2001 (McGinest, Troy Brown, et al), and that's the group that Brady inherited.

Check the numbers.  Curtis Martin had 1152 yards in 1997.  Antowain Smith had 1157 yards in 2001.  Don't try to portray the Patriots as being an empty lineup that Brady somehow transformed.  They were already a playoff team with Super Bowl aspirations when he took over.
What would you call a 4 time Pro Bowler? Very good? Would that be better?

They went 5-11 the year before.  That's a playoff team with Super Bowl aspirations?  NOBODY thought that team was a playoff team going into that year.  Brady also took over at 0-2 that year.

You actually meant 1996, not 1997, btw.  Which I recognize is a worse year for Hall-of-Famer Curtis Martin.
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