I've spoke to a few of you & got the idea many don't like OLs- some even call them garbage. So I started a simple theme league- 50 mil, no rooks, WW, or clones. I figured I'd add some cash & cover the basics many don't like. I promoted it in 3 forum pages & sent out many invites. Although it's early- I just started it yesterday- I'm not getting much response. So, how long should I expect to wait for owners to join? Also, if OLs are considered by so many to be garbage, why do they fill up so much faster than themes? I've taken away the options many complain about & added cash. I would think this would make it easier than an OL, since the 42 mil crunch makes it hard to build a team to begin with. PLEASE tell me what you think. If I need to add some options back, I will.

Generally, I look for no rookies and a creative theme.  Ur theme is a bit plain IMO.

Fair enough. So, what would you find creative? I don't like a lot of stuff like "everyone has to have a Bill Russell", "Only one player can average over 20 points", "no player can have more than X number of rebounds", etc. All those seem a bit to abstract & convoluted. Also, some of them used way too much money, when you consider how much salaries are here. When the most expensive player only costs 15 or 16 mil, theres simply no need for cap of more than 75 mil, if that. I think there was one at 100 mil. So, I guess this is why my league came off as a bit plain. Either way, what parameters would you prefer?

Posted by drocman212 on 2/10/2013 6:07:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. So, what would you find creative? I don't like a lot of stuff like "everyone has to have a Bill Russell", "Only one player can average over 20 points", "no player can have more than X number of rebounds", etc. All those seem a bit to abstract & convoluted. Also, some of them used way too much money, when you consider how much salaries are here. When the most expensive player only costs 15 or 16 mil, theres simply no need for cap of more than 75 mil, if that. I think there was one at 100 mil. So, I guess this is why my league came off as a bit plain. Either way, what parameters would you prefer?

I agree that some of the salary caps are too high based on the restrictions.  With any significant restrictions, I think $52M is the highest the cap a league should have under the current salary structure.  Themes that I like are: the parallel progressive league (which I am participating in), the $20M league with 3 1-1-1-A rookies (this is my exception to avoiding rookies), a poison pill league (where everyone has to pick at least one of a select group of terrible seasons), banned players, some draft leagues, etc.

In a more vibrant sim there would be room for themes that are just higher caps etc, franchise leagues, blacklist leagues, low cap leagues, progressives.. odd leagues based on the alphabet and digits of PI.. 

This more vibrant world hasn't existed for some time outside baseball. 

exclusive draft leagues.  I'd like to see a regressive league start will the next release of players. '12-'13.
The EOL twist theme is very good.  I don't think open league is garbage just the SIM as a hole should be better.

Here's what I look for in a theme league:

1.  Not too limiting on players - I want to be able to use players that *I* like.  If I don't have a chance at using some of my favorite players, I'm not interested.

2.  Balanced & Fair - Owners who join the league late (or have to draft near the bottom) should have just as good a chance at winning it all as the guys that get in early.  The EOL is a great example of this, and one of the reasons why is...

3.  Appropriate Salary Cap for the Purpose of the League - Basically, the higher the cap, the more unbalanced a league can become when it has a few (or many) restrictions based upon it.  The EOL's cap right now is $50m.  This is perfect.  It allows franchises like Denver and Charlotte to compete with goliaths like the Lakers and the 76ers.  If the cap was higher, there'd be no stopping those latter squads.  As it is, *any* franchise can walk away with the EOL title.  Also, the cap needs to be high enough that it doesn't eliminate the first thing I listed.

4.  Diversity of Players - I love themes where everybody has (mostly) different players.  For this reason, draft leagues are absolutely my favorite.  They are a challenge to run and probably the biggest challenge to play, and as time has shown, the sim really will only support a couple of them going at once.  But you don't have to have a draft league to have a diverse player database.  A good example of this is with Gerry's new(er) leagues that put a maximum number of rebounds drafted for a team.  Both leagues I've played in have been very diverse and it was an absolute ball to make both teams. 

But picking a random salary cap number and saying "no clones, rookies or waivers" doesn't encourage diversity.  The top owners will likely see how many top tier players they can squeeze together and you end up with 4 or 5 teams at the top of the league that look the same.  For example, there once was a $57m cap league with those rules.  The team at the top of each division had this combination of players:  '67 Wilt, '92 Worm, '90 Jordan, '09 Lebron.  Three of the teams also started '09 Troy Murphy (used to be a beast with 96 defense and 100% SF effectiveness).  The fourth team had '03 Ben Wallace and used 09-10 Lebron instead of 08-09.  The finals was a matchup between the exact same two starting fives.  How... meh.  Things haven't changed much really, so the higher the cap, and the fewer the restrictions, then the more identical the top teams will end up being.

With all that said... I've been working on building a team for your $50m open.  I think that the number is slightly too high to encourage variety, but it's close.  I think $47m or $48m would be perfect for an OL without rookies.  I'm not suggesting that you change the $50m; I'm just stating my opinion.

5.  Competition & Rivalries - If I look at an advertised theme league and see other owners that I respect expressing interest, I'm much more likely to join.  Several really good theme leagues have come to fruition because a newer owner had an idea that excited a veteran owner, and when that vet started giving advice, the originator started working with him to craft something great.  When an owner like myself sees this happening, I'm much more likely to join that league.  By contrast, if you immediately show that you are unwilling to craft what could be a better league, get defensive or just plain rude, it will often drive vet owners away.  I've seen it happen several times:  a newbie owner has a theme idea, posts it in the classifieds, gets some feedback from a vet, another vet pipes in and agrees, then the originator gets angry and rude... and guess what?  Those leagues die.  Every time.  There aren't enough theme regulars to come in, be an *** right away, not listen to what more experienced players have to say, and expect people to play with you or join your leagues.  It's a matter of respect.



Basically everything comes back to the salary cap.  Determining the proper cap to match up with the particular restrictions that you want to run is very difficult but is, in my opinion, the most important part of coming up with a good theme.

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the insight.

I also tend to remember when people cause my time to be wasted and tend to not support their themes later.  If you cancel a theme, you should at least post DEAD in the advertisment for said league.