All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Worst D1 Programs, by Location
3/20/2013 2:48 PM
Hawaii isn't very good because unless they are specifically on the island your school is on, its still 300-500 miles to recruit others from the same "state". Arizona State for another Big 6 school is pretty bad. There's not a lot of recruits, and you are behind AZ who's right next to you. You go west, and you run into Stanford and UCLA for the top guys, and battle conference mates for the rest. Going east, you have to go quite a ways out to find a recruit anyway, and by then you are running into Big 12 schools who usually have prestige and/or distance.

Althought I've never been there, I'd think Purdue was pretty bad too. North is Michigan State, west is Illinois, south is Kentucky, east is somewhat open, except you are at the same distance as Big East/ACC schools who usually have better prestige, like West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, etc. And 70 miles out, you still have Indiana right there. Along with Notre Dame, Northwestern as well. Since its not like the east coast where there's a lot of recruits in a small area, it gets dicey to have enough recruits to support more than 2 top programs. The Big 10 recruiting area in general is pretty bad. 
3/20/2013 3:04 PM
Posted by sublightd on 3/20/2013 2:48:00 PM (view original):
Hawaii isn't very good because unless they are specifically on the island your school is on, its still 300-500 miles to recruit others from the same "state". Arizona State for another Big 6 school is pretty bad. There's not a lot of recruits, and you are behind AZ who's right next to you. You go west, and you run into Stanford and UCLA for the top guys, and battle conference mates for the rest. Going east, you have to go quite a ways out to find a recruit anyway, and by then you are running into Big 12 schools who usually have prestige and/or distance.

Althought I've never been there, I'd think Purdue was pretty bad too. North is Michigan State, west is Illinois, south is Kentucky, east is somewhat open, except you are at the same distance as Big East/ACC schools who usually have better prestige, like West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, etc. And 70 miles out, you still have Indiana right there. Along with Notre Dame, Northwestern as well. Since its not like the east coast where there's a lot of recruits in a small area, it gets dicey to have enough recruits to support more than 2 top programs. The Big 10 recruiting area in general is pretty bad. 
i think purdue really depends on who is nearby, but if you build then up to an a/a+ prestige, i dont really see them being nearly as bad as some of these others. i do agree that it can be tough with big time neighbors (if you happen to have them in your world), but so can any rebuild. i agree with AZ state being one of the toughest schools, although if they had the a+ and az had the b+, i dont think they would be as tough to win a title with, as a+ hawaii or a+ utep (assuming one can get a+ utep without winning a title first :)

the situation really makes all the difference in the world, it really sucks. kentucky can be a really tough place to recruit even with an a+, i found it immensely challenging when i went there following my 5d1 titles in 9 year run years ago, because i had a lot of strong neighbors and 15-20k less than all big east and acc neighbors. with a strong SEC, especially if the TN schools are not the area of strength, i could see UK being a pretty good spot. so even for an a+ baseline, i think context is everything. i took over b- south carolina and built them into an a+ program, which was tough because of the neighbors - but only UNC, duke, and GA tech of the ACC were competing - clemson and wake were empty. wake in particular had been strong for very long, if either of those programs had been even moderate, it would have made my life much more difficult. still was a tough spot, being -15K on the ACC with 3 a/a+ schools right there, is never going to be easy. but it could have been 4 ACC schools, or maybe even 5 (or 6 like the ACC allen), which would make that sort of rebuild  monumentally difficult task. 

i really think the variance in who happens to be the big programs, and its impact on the difficulty for coaches, is just so wildly unbalanced - it shouldnt be 2x easier for a coach to win a title because of his particular semi random situation, than for a coach equally skilled at an equally good program. it shouldnt even be 50% easier, IMO, but in HD, i think at times, it is like 5x easier...
3/20/2013 3:24 PM
I'd agree Billy. As with everything, it has to do with who's at those schools. In Tark, Pitt and W. Virginia had two strong coaches, which made Ohio a real battleground. Those schools aren't A baseline schools. Conversely, A baseline Syracuse was terrible that entire time because of those schools being so strong. If you've got a weak ACC/Big E, then Ohio State can really be strong with the in state talent and striking distance of a lot of good recruits on the east coast. 

Some of the "sweet spot" jobs really has to do not necessarily with your own baseline, but your baseline compared to those around you. Washington / WSU is an example. There's no one for miles with a high baseline. A good coach (see Blapo21 in Tark) can really make one of those schools go. For a long time, LSU was a nice spot to be. Good recruit generation, no high baseline schools nearby meant you could suck up the local talent. Miami (FL) is a power school in about every world. I'm assuming (never having been there) that its because you only have Florida as the high baseline in the area, and there's so many recruits you still can pull a great squad.

Disqualifier: I'm not saying its all gravy and you don't work at these schools. I realize its not all ice cream and hot apple pie. You are still beholden to the recruit generator, just like the rest of us.
3/20/2013 7:29 PM
Posted by sublightd on 3/20/2013 2:48:00 PM (view original):
Hawaii isn't very good because unless they are specifically on the island your school is on, its still 300-500 miles to recruit others from the same "state". Arizona State for another Big 6 school is pretty bad. There's not a lot of recruits, and you are behind AZ who's right next to you. You go west, and you run into Stanford and UCLA for the top guys, and battle conference mates for the rest. Going east, you have to go quite a ways out to find a recruit anyway, and by then you are running into Big 12 schools who usually have prestige and/or distance.

Althought I've never been there, I'd think Purdue was pretty bad too. North is Michigan State, west is Illinois, south is Kentucky, east is somewhat open, except you are at the same distance as Big East/ACC schools who usually have better prestige, like West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, etc. And 70 miles out, you still have Indiana right there. Along with Notre Dame, Northwestern as well. Since its not like the east coast where there's a lot of recruits in a small area, it gets dicey to have enough recruits to support more than 2 top programs. The Big 10 recruiting area in general is pretty bad. 
Wrong about the distance between Hawaiian Islands. All the islands that generate recruits are within 200 miles. D2 recruiting at Chaminade wasn't bad at all. Local recruits are yours if you want them. And because you can get them cheaply, there is usually enough $$ left to grab one quality recruit from California. Of course if all the four Hawaiian D2 schools have real coaches, this goes out the window. Seems most worlds there aren't more than 2 human coached Hawaiian teams.
3/20/2013 7:55 PM
My bad. I've been at D2 and D1 there and maybe my traumatic experience of being a coach there inflated the distance. I think my point more was that the within 60 was pretty small. Maybe I'm wrong on that too.
3/20/2013 10:55 PM
I always liked being at Hawaii.  The one good to very good recruit each season is yours and ther rest of your money can go completely to internationals, where the costs are equal for everyone.  If the Pac12 is making a ton of tourney money, you'd have plenty to go after those guys from Eurasia and Africa and never need to waste funds on the domestic battles for 5-stars that everyone else is compelled to be engaged in.
3/21/2013 8:53 PM
Nebraska is really tough!  
3/23/2013 3:33 AM
To add on to what billyg said, I think the quality of the other coaches/schools in your conference can have a big effect as well. I haven't had nearly the trouble at Missouri that others have mentioned and I think a large part of that is the large budget bonus I get with the Big 12 being so strong in Knight. I still have to defer to Kansas and Illinois on the elite recruits but I've had no problem landing quality guys and climbing from C+ to B+ since I've been there.
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