Anyone else experience this.  You set a reliever's pull setting to "5" with a PC of "5-20" and the sim manager pulls the pitcher invariably at 3-7 pitches whether or not he gives up a hit or a walk. When the setting is "5" and the PC is at "15-20" the guy isn't pulled until he's shelled.  Any reason for this?

Apologies for the old post bump. Couldn't find an answer elsewhere.

I've experienced this in 2 recent games:

Game 1:
https://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=41176126&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=10

J. Nathan on a 4 pull rating. Tie game. 9th inning. Gives the lead to the other team on a run scoring triple. Not pulled. Gives up another run to the next batter on an RBI single. Not pulled. Next guy hits an RBI double. Not pulled. Pitched right to max pitch count with ton of arms left in the pen, giving up another double in the process.

Game 2:
https://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=41180162&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=10

T. Gordon on a 5 pull rating. Tie game. 5th inning. Gives the lead to the other team on a run scoring triple. Not pulled. Gives up another run on a ground out. Not pulled. Gives up a double. Not pulled. Pitched right to MPC with ton of arms left in the pen.

J. Papelbon on a 5 pull rating. Tie game. 8th inning. Gives up 2 singles to put runners on 1st and 3rd. Not pulled. Gives up a run on a fielder's choice. Not pulled. Gives up a walk. Not pulled. Pitched right to MPC with ton of arms left in the pen.

What's the point of a 4 or 5 pull factor if not to pull a pitcher in these scenarios?

Good question.

Another recent example:

https://www.whatifsports.com/slb/Boxscore.aspx?gid=41186364&pid=1&pbp=0&tf=1

R. Nen comes in the 5th with a 2 run lead. Set at 5 TPC/15 MPC, Call Bullpen on 5. Gives up back to back singles. Not pulled. Allows a run to score on a single. Not pulled. Has surely thrown 5 pitches by now. Gives up a 2 run double that blows the lead. Not pulled. Allows another double that gives the opponent a 2 run lead. Not pulled. Finally pulled after 2 more batters and 18 PC. At least 5 other arms were available that whole time.

Exactly what has to happen for a guy with a 5 TPC and 5 Call Bullpen to get pulled before his MPC?

So, you DO have the boxes checked (on the OTHER relievers) to use the other arms in relief? Right?

Posted by laramiebob on 4/2/2023 9:36:00 AM (view original):
So, you DO have the boxes checked (on the OTHER relievers) to use the other arms in relief? Right?

Of course. On that team, there are 10 arms available in the pen, 6 set to any inning and 4 set to 7/8/9 innings.

But I think I've found the issue. I had all 10 RP set to either RHS or LHS with 5-15 pitch counts and 5 call bullpen. Despite the fact that this role is specifically designed to face one batter only, it looks like the MPC trumps all other pull factors. A specialist will not get pulled, no matter what, until his MPC is hit.

Another good question. :-)

its asking a lot to have something this obscure in the FAQ. most of the knowledge we have of the sim is because people did what you did: they ran tests and then shared what they learned with others in the forums. i imagine that's how you and many others learned the game, it's certainly how i did. users are always going to come up with new strategies that the people building the sim never considered.

i would suggest sending in a ticket sharing your findings and asking them to consider a code update rather than expecting every single nuance of every possible setting within the sim to be spelled out for you

Keep TPC/MPC the same or within 5. Such a wide disparity (5/20?) could lead to wonky-looking results or not work exactly as you want in every scenario.

Posted by 06gsp on 4/4/2023 1:12:00 PM (view original):
its asking a lot to have something this obscure in the FAQ. most of the knowledge we have of the sim is because people did what you did: they ran tests and then shared what they learned with others in the forums. i imagine that's how you and many others learned the game, it's certainly how i did. users are always going to come up with new strategies that the people building the sim never considered.

i would suggest sending in a ticket sharing your findings and asking them to consider a code update rather than expecting every single nuance of every possible setting within the sim to be spelled out for you

This.

Posted by 06gsp on 4/4/2023 1:12:00 PM (view original):
its asking a lot to have something this obscure in the FAQ. most of the knowledge we have of the sim is because people did what you did: they ran tests and then shared what they learned with others in the forums. i imagine that's how you and many others learned the game, it's certainly how i did. users are always going to come up with new strategies that the people building the sim never considered.

i would suggest sending in a ticket sharing your findings and asking them to consider a code update rather than expecting every single nuance of every possible setting within the sim to be spelled out for you

I certainly don't expect every single nuance of every possible setting within the sim to be spelled out for me, nor did I say that. You are more than welcome to keep that condescending attitude to yourself in the future.

I do think that a small note explaining, that in certain cases, a setting will work the exact opposite way it's supposed to work, isn't too much to ask. It's literally one extra sentence that could be added on here:

The Call Bullpen setting is for patience with a pitcher who has not yet reached his TPC. It is on a scale from 1-5 where 1 is very patient and 5 is a quick trigger.

An addition like "However, RH and LH Specialists will pitch to MPC regardless of performance" seems simple enough.

And I did, in fact, send in a ticket before posting here. The only reason I posted this was becuase the answer I received was less than helpful in explaining why this was happening:

"With the pull rating as you mentioned the expectation would be that the pitcher would likely be pulled. That's one of the things with the current game is the settings can be guidelines to try to get situations we want as we would do them but depending on situations the game may determine otherwise and not exactly match the expectations based on the settings the way they are."

I thought maybe the community here would have some insight.

Posted by skunk206 on 4/4/2023 2:57:00 PM (view original):
Keep TPC/MPC the same or within 5. Such a wide disparity (5/20?) could lead to wonky-looking results or not work exactly as you want in every scenario.

I actually always keep it within 5. RP are almost always 10/15. In this case, I tried every way to get a specialist to get pulled if they were in trouble before MPC, and that included reducing TPC to 5. It didn't work.

Posted by 06gsp on 4/4/2023 6:22:00 PM (view original):
they obviously didn't do this on purpose, it's just an oversight in the way the game is programmed and it never came up because setting a specialist to have a high pitch count and aggressive pull setting is something i'm assuming no one paid attention to when the game was coded.

there are a million things that come up more than this that aren't in the FAQ. there are pages and pages of stuff people had to figure out themselves and post in the threads. i appreciate you taking the time to test this yourself and increase our general knowledge of how it works, but it's ridiculous to demand WIS update this. and now you're demanding the tone I take be different? Get over yourself, dork.

Boy, sure glad I came here to ask the community for insight and assistance about an unexpected outcome. Won't make that mistake twice.

I think that post can be ignored, JJP.