All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > AMAZIN METS MESMERIZING THREAD---NEW THREAD!
5/23/2013 9:36 AM
Yes, if you want to argue to send Ike to Vegas, that's fine.  That's not on Collins, though.
5/23/2013 9:38 AM
Manager is a babysitter/shrink/protector.    While you'd hate to think professional athletes need to be motivated to do their job, some do.    You don't want to "hurt their feelings" to the point of resentment or coddle them so much they think of you as their granny but there are players that need to be prodded to be their best.   And, finally, he has to shield them from the media/GM/owner.

I didn't buy any of this before Torre but the Yankees changed from dysfunctional team with George screaming in the papers every other day to a succesful team that largely didn't produce headlines off the field(except for ******* A-Rod). 

But, of course, without talent, it doesn't matter that much.   FWIW, Showalter has produced improvement everywhere he goes.   Seems he wears on people but he does get results.  
5/23/2013 9:51 AM
Twice Buck has been fired, and the team won a WS the next year.  I think the "Buck is a great manager" has been overblown somewhat.

When did George stop screaming so much in the papers? Wasn't it after the suspension (I'm going back to years where my memory gets fuzzy because I was young).  Even some of the Torre years he was talking too much crap.  Didn't he bash Jeter for partying too much and called Irabu a "fat ***** toad"?  To Torre's credit, I know he diffused a lot of the George stuff...he mentioned that in stories since his retirement.  I'm sure that helped some.

Collins has no responsibility in that way.  The Mets don't talk.  The GM talks like Jeter in which he says nothing, ever, when he does talk.  Ownership doesn't talk.  If you want to blame Collins for not being able to get Ike out of his funk and the team freezing with RISP? Eh. Maybe.  At some point, it's on the players.  From what I hear, Collins constantly encourages his players, is the guy who coddles you when you need it, and kicks you in the *** when you act like a jackass.  I don't think Ike's troubles are on Collins.  Talented teams win games, untalented teams don't.  And sometimes talented teams get unlucky, and untalented teams get lucky.
5/23/2013 10:08 AM
To be honest, I think George began to STFU for two reasons:  1) Yanks were winning WS under Torre  2) His health was failing.   Could have been a perfect storm to lessen George's rants but he was a lot more calm from the late 90s on.     As for Irabu, that was late 90s.   And Jeter was early 2000s.   But those are nothing compared to Winfield/Jackson/Martin days.  In the 70s/80s/early 90s, George was jumping somebody's *** every week.

Showalter was in the booth, so to speak, so his managing is probably overblown a bit by his booth buddies.   But his teams get results.   Nobody expected Baltimore last year and most expected them to implode this year.   I don't think they're overburdened with talent.  

Collins hasn't really had much success as a manager(same could have been said about pre-Yankee Torre) but what tontocresten says is true.  He's just a recycled manager.   The guy holding the spot until you get the guy you want.   Is he the blame for the Mets suckitude?  No.   Is he part of the future solution?  No.
5/23/2013 10:27 AM


Great manager.
5/23/2013 10:28 AM
"The guy holding the spot until you get the guy you want.   Is he the blame for the Mets suckitude?  No.   Is he part of the future solution?  No."

Agree with both.  Anton is arguing the answer to the first question is yes (at least a large part), which is what I'm arguing against.
5/23/2013 10:31 AM
Well, in that case, why keep Collins?   Bring in a Backman or whoever floats your boat.   Find out if they can be part of the future solution.   If nothing else, Backman will help a couple of neighborhood bars stay afloat until the fans start coming back. 
5/23/2013 10:32 AM
I WAS AGAINST HIRING COLLINS IN THE 1ST PLACE. I KNEW HE WASN'T THE GUY

CLEAN HOUSE, TOP TO BOTTOM

OWNER, G.M. MANAGER, IKE
5/23/2013 10:32 AM
KILL THE FAIRWEATHER FANS TOO!!!
5/23/2013 10:35 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/23/2013 10:31:00 AM (view original):
Well, in that case, why keep Collins?   Bring in a Backman or whoever floats your boat.   Find out if they can be part of the future solution.   If nothing else, Backman will help a couple of neighborhood bars stay afloat until the fans start coming back. 
A) Because you still have to pay Collins.  Mets are cheap/poor.

B) Because what good does that do?

C) There's "bad" that could be done.  If the team continues to struggle with Backman (likely) you may have players that won't necessarily respect the manager, you'll have fans like anton (FIRE HIM HE SUCKS) against him, you'll have the media against him, etc.  An argument could be made that Collins was set up to fail.  But putting Backman in his place now, you could be doing the same thing.  Wait until next year.
5/23/2013 10:37 AM
Posted by antoncresten on 5/23/2013 10:32:00 AM (view original):
I WAS AGAINST HIRING COLLINS IN THE 1ST PLACE. I KNEW HE WASN'T THE GUY

CLEAN HOUSE, TOP TO BOTTOM

OWNER, G.M. MANAGER, IKE
Fire the owner? I wish.
5/23/2013 10:38 AM
It's better to be interesting and bad than boring and bad.  

I think you, me and cresten are the only people on earth talking about the Mets.    And I'm just bored today.
5/23/2013 10:39 AM
There's a Met on the cover of SI right now.  They're interesting enough.  And I'd rather set up my team to win more games in the future than not.
5/23/2013 10:40 AM
If you fired Terry and hired Wally, there would probably be no difference overall to anything.  It's irrelevant.  But Collins isn't the reason the Mets suck.  It's the lack of hitting/defense/pitching.
5/23/2013 11:31 AM

I don't think they're interesting.    Not a Mets fan but I don't think I could name 5 players on the team.  I think I could do that with about 25 teams.   Puts the Mets in the bottom 16% of "interesting" for me.

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