coach_billyg - A Manefesto on 1st Class Usership Topic

Also "Ohio St is actually winning championships"

lol give ME a break.

4/18/2013 11:11 AM
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I wonder who craigcoug really is.....
4/18/2013 11:21 AM
Posted by craigcoug on 4/18/2013 11:17:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tarvolon on 4/18/2013 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by craigcoug on 4/18/2013 10:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tarvolon on 4/18/2013 9:18:00 AM (view original):
Posted by craigcoug on 4/18/2013 1:44:00 AM (view original):
It would seem to me that the beef would be with this statement:

"wiping those teams would sound good for a minute... and i'm sure some of those multiple team guys are cheating, so you'd find a few cheaters...but the game can't survive wiping out so many of the teams from so many of the stable long term members of the community."

....shouldn't we all have beef with that statement? pretty much sounds like admission of guilt to me.
The Dishonesty of Ellipses: Exhibit A. 
Within each set of ellipses, Billy brags about what a superior coach he is. I didn't feel that was relevant to the discussion. Nice try, though.
Of course, just plain ol' lying is dishonest too. 

(Unless you have a good argument that this clause is billyg bragging about his coaching:  "just like you would wiping out ANY segment of this game's population")
Ah. Perhaps that is the exact reason I omitted that phrase. Lies indeed.

"cheating within the elite dynasty coaches is equal to cheating by the outsiders"...  Nope! And the reason is cause and effect. A "dynasty coach" who is winning championships through cheating is a bigger deal than a "nobody coach" not winning anything through cheating. Both should have their second team taken away, but the argument that it's just not that big a deal for the elites is, well, a lie.

It doesn't matter how long they've been on the site. It doesn't matter how many friends they've made by writing up advice forums. It doesn't matter how ingenious they might seem. Any player with 2 teams in the same world should have one of those teams taken away. It doesn't matter if they've built a dynasty or not.. It doesn't matter that they will be much more upset than the other players because the value of their teams is oh-so-higher.

The moment you added that second team to the world where you already had one is the moment you made a mistake. And there needs to be a fair consequence for that mistake that you made. For WIS to avoid being a complete circus, they have to take your second team away. This is beyond obvious.

Look, billy's argument is that by wiping out any segment of the WIS population, you will catch a lot of cheaters. However, if in catching cheaters, you alienate a lot of your best non-cheating customers, it's not worth it. 

You might disagree with that, but there it is. 

You're insinuating that billyg has admitted that those with two accounts have a higher incidence of cheating than any random sample of WIS users. He admitted no such thing, and any such insinuations are dishonest. If you want to interact with the actual argument, there is room for intelligent discussion, and I'm sure you'll have plenty of good points to make. But let's not act like statements mean something other than they mean. that's all I'm asking. 
4/18/2013 11:25 AM
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Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/18/2013 11:28:00 AM (view original):
I think the definition of "best non-cheating customers" is subjective.  I wonder how much in $ value WIS benefits from having guys like billyg around.   I am willing to bet supercoach doesn't have a lot of WIS transactions on his credit card.  :)
That's certainly a fair point. I am open to arguments against billyg's position. I'm not his personal defender, and I don't have any horse in the race. I just want us to be up front about what we're arguing about. *handshake icon thing*
4/18/2013 11:29 AM
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You know, I really don't care that much.   I think I would prefer if people didn't do it but quite frankly the benefit to cheating is reasonably minimal.    At DI, the % of recruiting money you might save is less than 5%.   Ath D2 and D3 it's different, but recruiting is totally different.  No one is coming across the country to take my recruits.

While there is a benefit to cheating, I think it is reasonably small.

So what were talking about it like 10% of the total population cheating 10% of the time to get a 10% advantage.

I am sure that doesn't sit well with a lot of people but doens't seem worth it to me to **** off the original 10% of people.

Now, the illusion of integrity is important, WIS can't have the perception  that this game is full of hackers and cheaters.   

4/18/2013 11:48 AM (edited)
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" I don't need an admission from billyg to tell me that those with two accounts have a higher incidence of cheating than a random sample of other WIS users."

I would argue that people who openly have two teams in the same world are actually LESS likely to be cheaters than a random user.  But either way it's 100% doesn't become fact if you say it over and over.

The problem is with people creating "secret" 2nd accounts and targeting/colluding with them.  Punishing coaches with 2 longtime dynasties in the same world doesn't address that problem at all.
4/18/2013 11:59 AM
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The point is that having two teams within one world is cheating.
But that's not true.  There is a 1000-mile policy which specifically allows two teams in one world.  If you want it to be changed, that's one thing, and I'm fine with that.  However it's not presently cheating.

tkimble and others also make a good point - that guys like cbg drop all kinds of knowledge on these boards.  This has made me, and a lot of other coaches, better at the game.  I enjoy it more and get frustrated less.
4/18/2013 12:04 PM
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This may be random since I only recently started reading the forums. I do not have multiple teams or any other usernames, and I have been on WIS since 2002. I do not want to believe that everyone with multiple teams is a cheater, but the ability is certainly there.

I personally do not even answer people on the CC until my recruits have signed, but statement like this bothers me. 
"I HAVE on occasion sitemailed a coach to see if a recruit is a priority for them or if he's just a place holder, but those occasions are rare and almost always occur when a coach has more considering than he has spots open."
I am operating under the assumption that this activity is not happening.

As for sharing FSS between teams just read the Tark SEC CC three pages back. The ability is there even if the coach does not act on it. 

I could care less either way. I am going to continue to play, and I do enjoy playing with several of the coaches that are being talked about(All that are in Tark). If you really feel the advantage is that unfair, then you should continue to fight. That is your right as a paying customer. 

4/18/2013 12:15 PM
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coach_billyg - A Manefesto on 1st Class Usership Topic

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