All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > How do you manage against the typical OL HOF team?
4/21/2013 2:08 PM
I've only been in a couple of Open Leagues, but noticed that the best teams are practically carbon copies of each other and they win all the time. Each league has had at least 4-6 of these teams. Goes something like this, P: 3 early 20th century starters like 1908 Adie Joss with 1918 Jim Northrup in the bullpen. Hitters are some combination of Tim Raines, BipRoberts, Howard Johnson, Wade Boggs, Vince Coleman and always Gary Carter at C. I'm in a division with 2 of these teams now and I'm pretty much toast. I understand the high ip, low whips, low hr/ip, high ops metrics and tried to build a modern team withplayers i like and know with the same characteristics, but the SIM seems to love these early 20th century pitchers and this collection of hitters.

Is there a way to configure settings to beat these teams? Or do I need to go the theme league route to avoid having to face 1908 Adie Joss in almost every series?

Just curious because I have no interest in creating my own carbon copy team.

4/21/2013 2:13 PM
Theme leagues are much more fun if you ask me. Progressives are where I spend most of my time. The average everyday players get used in progressives.

It is possible, however, to win in open leagues without using the "carbon copy" team. It takes some trial and error, but don't give up on it. It sounds like you've discovered why these teams do so well, and that's the first step to beating them.
4/21/2013 3:07 PM
How do I get in a theme league and what is a Progressive? I tried joining one and I keep getting an error message.
4/21/2013 3:27 PM
Go to the Theme League Classifieds or Progressive League Classified forums.

A progressive league is a league that replays a season, owners keep their players and have a draft for new players after each season.

They take longer to fill but are worth it in my opinion.
4/21/2013 3:42 PM
4/21/2013 5:25 PM
bpeter. You have come to the same conclusion as most of the intelligent AND sensitive human beings on this site about OLs. It is too bad, but yes, the formula team you have outlined above wins much more often than not. You will find that long years of debate have gone on if you look back at the forums. 

Many of us have tried a number of things and come to the conclusion of the fine people who have posted here to answer you. 

If you look at the forums, you will see that both theme leagues and progressive leagues have "classifieds" - leagues are looking for people to join and they describe the specific characteristics of their league. 

You will see that many theme leagues are constructed precisely to make the kind of team you are dealing with impossible or irrelevant, either by limiting players that can be drafted to certain time periods, or certain stats etc. or by specific exclusions. 


Others simply make this kind of team irrelevant by having only certain teams - say, World Series winners, or teams where every player is from the same franchise or has a name starting with the same letter or whatever. Many are a lot of fun. Some continue for more than one season and you have an option of putting a team in this league again or not. 

Progressive leagues, which are mostly where I have played for a year or so, are leagues where teams are either 1) all from the same season, and a public draft takes place, each owner taking turns to draft those players who entered MLB that season - so a league might begin in say 1960 and then in 1961 the same owners continue with the same team, drafting some new players that entered in 1961, playing that season; 2) more than one season, often simply to guarantee that enough players are available, so a league might play only players from 1927 and 1977. The following season all players are from 1928 and 78, with the same players on rosters except for those you decide to drop and again drafting those who were newly arrived in MLB that season and so on; 3) a lot of different seasons, but each players still moves ahead in time one year at a time as the league progresses. Most owners remain for many seasons and these leagues become a sort of community. There is no chance of the sort of team you are facing coming about and you get to know people better. 

Many of us understand your dismay. We wish "open leagues" were different, but after a while it gets tedious to face Addie Joss day after day. 

Check out the classified forums and you will find a lot of good stuff going on.
4/22/2013 12:26 AM
Very insightful and well written response. Thank you. I did look at the classifieds and joined an interesting '70s theme league, but it will be very competitive.

In my first OL I did manage to earn the wild card with my self-imposed Texas Rangers theme team, but wasn't able to start winning until I completely revamped the bullpen after 25 games. My starters were good enough, but as soon as they left the game, the relievers gave up 6, 7, 8 runs whatever way too frequently. Very annoying, but granted I chose them as personal favorites and not from performance. Unfortunately, Adie Joss and Co. whipsawed me in the 1st round.

I started another OL and ended up in a division with 2 of these teams. I understand we play the game to try to win, but I find those teams intellectually boring. Playing Howard Johnson at SS for 162 games is just manipulating the SIM. I really feel bad for the newbies who enter nostalgic teams from their youth or whenever and then go 35-127. Eventually they give up and then lose 49 games in a row.

Thanks for the response again. I'm looking forward to the challenge of the new league.
4/22/2013 12:39 AM
Posted by bpeter on 4/21/2013 2:08:00 PM (view original):
I've only been in a couple of Open Leagues, but noticed that the best teams are practically carbon copies of each other and they win all the time. Each league has had at least 4-6 of these teams. Goes something like this, P: 3 early 20th century starters like 1908 Adie Joss with 1918 Jim Northrup in the bullpen. Hitters are some combination of Tim Raines, BipRoberts, Howard Johnson, Wade Boggs, Vince Coleman and always Gary Carter at C. I'm in a division with 2 of these teams now and I'm pretty much toast. I understand the high ip, low whips, low hr/ip, high ops metrics and tried to build a modern team withplayers i like and know with the same characteristics, but the SIM seems to love these early 20th century pitchers and this collection of hitters.

Is there a way to configure settings to beat these teams? Or do I need to go the theme league route to avoid having to face 1908 Adie Joss in almost every series?

Just curious because I have no interest in creating my own carbon copy team.

This game in general and in OLs especially is all about finding bargains and building synergies.  The easiest route are deadball pitchers with modern fielders.  There are other ways to win, but yeah it is harder.

You could try drafting a team of modern starters and pairing them with low FP high range defense.
4/23/2013 2:37 PM (edited)
The problem is that What If Sports doesn't update the game, or certain elements of the game, in a timely manner.  However you want to dress it up, SIM baseball is just a numbers + formula + luck game, and since the 2007(?) SIM engine overhaul, most people know the formula and what numbers to bet on.  Sometimes all it takes to create diversity again is something simple like adjusting certain players' salaries... or something more drastic like changing the way HR's are normalized for deadball pitchers.  But that hasn't happened in a while, which is why OL's suck.    Theme and Prog leagues limit your choices, and are thus more competitive.  

Another thing I enjoy about progs and themes is that many of these leagues continue on with a relatively stable core of owners for multiple seasons. I currently only play in 3 (occasionally 4, if I'm bored) leagues.  A theme league that has gone on for 30+ seasons over the course of (IIRC) 8 years... a prog I've been in for 15 seasons (5+ years) and another prog I've been in for 8 seasons (3 years).  I enjoy them all... the league forums are talkative and entertaining... I tend to utilize players I would never draft otherwise (especially during rebuilding phases)... and in the prog leagues I can plan ahead, looking at a big picture and not just one single season.
All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > How do you manage against the typical OL HOF team?

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