All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > the real problem (not multiple team argument)
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4/26/2013 5:47 PM
Agreed.   WIS needs to just make whatever decisions are still up in the air, whatever they may be. Then they need to sit down, and take a long hard look at all the site rules and Clean them up to where the rules are clear and to the point. I do not mean that they need to write new rules, just that they have a set of values they want and a set of values they do not want and those should be clearly indicated, along with whatever punishment will result from breaking the rules. Then they need to enforce those rules cleanly across the board, no exceptions.

What they do not need to do is try and cover all the grey areas, every situation is going to be different, even if a similar situation has occurred before. When you try to cover all they grey areas, you get a general lack of clarity and that's the last thing we need. Start with a clear list of things not to be done, enforce those consistently and fairly. Going forward, address each new concern as it arises --  in a clear, clean consistent manner. Amend rules as needed, but always with the idea that they be clear and to the point.

Yes, there may be some who leave, but for those who stay and for those yet to come, the rules and the consequences of breaking them will be up front for all to see.

4/26/2013 8:31 PM
Posted by illinirock on 4/26/2013 5:48:00 PM (view original):
Agreed.   WIS needs to just make whatever decisions are still up in the air, whatever they may be. Then they need to sit down, and take a long hard look at all the site rules and Clean them up to where the rules are clear and to the point. I do not mean that they need to write new rules, just that they have a set of values they want and a set of values they do not want and those should be clearly indicated, along with whatever punishment will result from breaking the rules. Then they need to enforce those rules cleanly across the board, no exceptions.

What they do not need to do is try and cover all the grey areas, every situation is going to be different, even if a similar situation has occurred before. When you try to cover all they grey areas, you get a general lack of clarity and that's the last thing we need. Start with a clear list of things not to be done, enforce those consistently and fairly. Going forward, address each new concern as it arises --  in a clear, clean consistent manner. Amend rules as needed, but always with the idea that they be clear and to the point.

Yes, there may be some who leave, but for those who stay and for those yet to come, the rules and the consequences of breaking them will be up front for all to see.

+1. Exactly! WIS is the problem here. Make clear rules and have fair enforcement of those rules. Woohoo!
4/27/2013 10:20 AM (edited)
I think it's naive and unfair on WIS' part to make an example out of billyg (BECAUSE OF STINENAVY) when they won't/aren't willing to police their game beyond "tips" received from particular users.  That's basically asking the inmates to run the asylum.

What should have been done was an HD wide investigation after STINENAVY ratted out billyg...those in violation of the 1000 mile rule should have had X amount of seasons to correct their "mistakes" (like billyg suggests) as they were the fault of both the user and WIS not policing their game, or nothing should have been done at all.

The worst thing that could have been done is what actually took place...seble exercised a knee-jerk reaction to ONE user (STINENAVY) ratting out one user "in violation" of the rules, ruling against billyg and acting immediately without any real consideration for billyg's teams/feelings/effort/etc, forcing him to drop one of the teams pretty much ASAP while assuming a "case closed, the users need to police their own game" mantra on the subject going forward.  Trying to shut everyone up by making an example of one "rule breaker" doesn't solve the problem, nor clarify the rule.  This has been handled quite poorly...you can't act swiftly while not taking into account the full breadth and scope of the entire situation.

4/27/2013 1:36 AM
colonels... please, no more arguments about multiple teams here! i would appreciate it =)  i just want to see if people have any thoughts or opinions on the subject of how seble should deal with these issues that keep coming up, not what the rules should be, but how he should communicate them, and deal with issues that aren't clearly covered under the rules - like dshooks situation. that caused him significant stress, apparently (as he started a poll about if all multiple teams should be banned). i think the way the situation as a whole is handled, causes problems, as i explained in my post... and was wondering if people had other thoughts or ideas about how seble might go about making this situation better, long term - NOT this specific multiple teams issue.
4/27/2013 2:59 AM
I thnk that trying to get accomplished what you're wanting to get accomplished will HAVE to be done by bringing up the multiple teams issue and the way it was handled.  That's the communication part that you're looking for and is at the very core of your issue.
4/27/2013 10:21 AM
I deleted my last paragraph but left the rest because I believe it's 100% pertinent to the conversation
4/28/2013 12:57 AM
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
4/28/2013 1:01 AM
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
I agree, and I'd go a step further -- WIS should shut down a few worlds at this point just because they can, and offer to move the displaced coaches into other worlds. And from there, usher in a new era of how the rules of the game will be applied.

Of course they won't do it, but it'd be a jolting reminder (one that seems necessary at this point) that we as players have no right to this game. WIS could turn off the servers tomorrow. 
4/28/2013 1:27 AM
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/28/2013 1:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
I agree, and I'd go a step further -- WIS should shut down a few worlds at this point just because they can, and offer to move the displaced coaches into other worlds. And from there, usher in a new era of how the rules of the game will be applied.

Of course they won't do it, but it'd be a jolting reminder (one that seems necessary at this point) that we as players have no right to this game. WIS could turn off the servers tomorrow. 
wow, i dont even want to touch that one...
4/28/2013 1:48 AM (edited)
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
im actually really hoping, and banking on their laziness, that they wont write a script (i dont have other teams in violation, but others do). but if you have a DB of customers (how can you not? but who knows, maybe they manage to find a way), its absolutely trivial to do a lookup on fields. IP isnt the best, but billing address and name would be a good start.

really i was more saying they should take a stand and communicate it CLEARLY, and be *willing* to enforce it all the way, than i was actually hoping they would do so in this case. actually, i really hope they dont do so, in this case. but for example, if they ever banned multiple teams, it would be total bullshit not to script in and enforce it though, it would be a crime to move anyone when its so obvious so many are in violation. to make a rule you cant reasonably enforce, and it can only stand up because you and most others make no effort to enforce it, is just wrong, IMO.
4/28/2013 1:52 AM
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/28/2013 1:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
I agree, and I'd go a step further -- WIS should shut down a few worlds at this point just because they can, and offer to move the displaced coaches into other worlds. And from there, usher in a new era of how the rules of the game will be applied.

Of course they won't do it, but it'd be a jolting reminder (one that seems necessary at this point) that we as players have no right to this game. WIS could turn off the servers tomorrow. 
It would also be a jolting reminder to WIS if people stopped paying to play the game and simply walked away.  Yes they could shut off the servers tomorrow, but they could also have no customers either.  It's a two way street, wouldn't you say?

I guess what I'm trying to say is though we may have no rights to this game (as you say), they also depend on us to keep their game afloat.  They shut off the servers, they lose that revenue, no?
4/28/2013 2:03 AM (edited)
i think we'd all just pick up teams in the remaining worlds, wouldnt we?
4/28/2013 8:42 AM
Posted by dcy0827 on 4/28/2013 1:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/28/2013 1:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
I agree, and I'd go a step further -- WIS should shut down a few worlds at this point just because they can, and offer to move the displaced coaches into other worlds. And from there, usher in a new era of how the rules of the game will be applied.

Of course they won't do it, but it'd be a jolting reminder (one that seems necessary at this point) that we as players have no right to this game. WIS could turn off the servers tomorrow. 
It would also be a jolting reminder to WIS if people stopped paying to play the game and simply walked away.  Yes they could shut off the servers tomorrow, but they could also have no customers either.  It's a two way street, wouldn't you say?

I guess what I'm trying to say is though we may have no rights to this game (as you say), they also depend on us to keep their game afloat.  They shut off the servers, they lose that revenue, no?
Successful businesses identify customers that are more trouble than they're worth, and fire those customers (or find some other way to exclude them).

Not every source of revenue is valuable. The addicts worth keeping will stick with the game.
4/28/2013 8:54 AM
Posted by kcsundevil on 4/28/2013 1:01:00 AM (view original):
Posted by hughesjr on 4/28/2013 12:59:00 AM (view original):
I don't think WIS has time to look at every player's IP addresses to see who is logging in with multiple IDs ... and then determine which players have multiple teams within the 1000 mile limit.  I don't think they should read every site mail looking for collusion.

Also remember that some large companies use 1 external IP address and use non public IP subnets internally .. most homes with more than 1 machine do as well.  It is very possible for several different people on different machines to have the same IP address that connects to WIS.

This should be done by users policing each other.

It does not need to be done in the forums, but if you know someone is cheating then you should tell WIS.

This goes for multiple teams, it goes for collusion/list sharing.  If you have proof, tell WIS.

I don't have too many issue with Coaches Corner posts ... everyone can read those, so as long as it is not blatantly one coach saying you take PlayerA and I'll take PlayerB in the Coaches Corner, there should be some leeway there.

I personally think that 1 team per world is enough ... but the rule is 1000 miles right now ... and that rule (and all other rules) should be enforced on everyone.
I agree, and I'd go a step further -- WIS should shut down a few worlds at this point just because they can, and offer to move the displaced coaches into other worlds. And from there, usher in a new era of how the rules of the game will be applied.

Of course they won't do it, but it'd be a jolting reminder (one that seems necessary at this point) that we as players have no right to this game. WIS could turn off the servers tomorrow. 
That'd be a great way to get me to drop teams.  If it's 1 of the worlds that I currently have teams in that's being moved (I'm currently down to 3), I won't be along for the ride.
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > the real problem (not multiple team argument)

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