All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > I will miss Old Warrior/Iguana
5/25/2013 3:41 PM
Dude, get a gf or something
5/25/2013 4:07 PM
I'm sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I don't understand where all the drama comes from... The rule is no teams within 1000 miles. I know not everyone agrees with the rule, but it's the rule. Justify not following it all everyone wants, but at the end of the day the rule still exists and I believe it should be followed by everyone.
5/25/2013 4:18 PM
Posted by supersloth33 on 5/25/2013 4:07:00 PM (view original):
I'm sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I don't understand where all the drama comes from... The rule is no teams within 1000 miles. I know not everyone agrees with the rule, but it's the rule. Justify not following it all everyone wants, but at the end of the day the rule still exists and I believe it should be followed by everyone.
And what of the coaches who had teams for up to seven years, that were in compliance with the rules when they had both teams?  How do you compensate them for all the time, effort, and money that they put forth to get to the teams they had?  Is that fair to those coaches who DID put in all that time, effort, and money to just have their teams yanked out from under them with no compensation?  And there are coaches who fit that description, plenty of them in fact.  What of them, how is that fair?
5/25/2013 4:21 PM
Posted by stinenavy on 5/25/2013 2:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 5/25/2013 12:26:00 PM (view original):
That's what these guys can't seem to get through their heads.  The coaches who have no qualms about announcing what their alternate ID's are, are the ones who are LEAST likely to cheat.  Why?  Because it's easy for the hall monitors to check up on them.  By announcing their alternate ID's, they are, in essence, laying all their cards on the table for everyone to see.  The coaches that HIDE their alternate ID's, those are the ones to worry about because those are the guys who are more likely to use that second ID for nefarious purposes.  It's not that difficult to comprehend....or maybe it is.
Emy the cheater, I never said the 1000 mile rule was some amazing decision that will totally stamp out cheating. One person could have teams in Washington, California, Texas, Florida, Maine, and Minnesota and not violate the 1000 mile rule. I would like a more restrictive rule.

What puzzles me is your holier-than-thou attitude that has you believe the rules don't apply to you. If you think there should be a grandfather clause, you should have taken it up with seble when the fair play guidelines were updated. If WIS said they weren't going to budge on it, you should have moved. Instead you decided to knowingly violate the rule for a year.
Hey genius, who said I DIDN'T take it up with CS?  Remember those tickets that you're dying to see so badly?  Ya think that there's a possibility that THOSE tickets WERE me taking up the issue with CS?  You know what I got out of all that?  That as long as nobody "cried" about it, that there wasn't an issue.  See they realize how much time, effort, and money were put into getting where we were (not to mention the fact that when the teams were picked up, they weren't in violation of ANY rule in place at the time.  That's also why you don't see any firings, they don't want to **** off the customers who have put the most time and money into the game.  Sorry but that's the reality of the situation), but thanks to just a handful of coaches crying like little girls with skinned knees, they felt they had to appease the babies.  Squeaky wheel really does get the grease, I guess. 

You know what puzzles me?  Your holier-than-thou attitude that everyone should report what they know to you!  Who died and made you the HD gestapo?  You want to talk about a holier-than-thou attitude, well that right there takes the cake.  You want to rat someone out, do the dirty work yourself.  Anyway, you really bore me, so you can call me whatever you want, do it all day and all night, week after week, and I won't even notice because I'm done dealing with the least respected coach that HD has to offer.  Call me anything you want sweetheart, it won't earn you a response.  Bye bye darling (hugs and kisses)!
5/25/2013 4:25 PM
Posted by supersloth33 on 5/25/2013 4:07:00 PM (view original):
I'm sorry, but unless I'm missing something, I don't understand where all the drama comes from... The rule is no teams within 1000 miles. I know not everyone agrees with the rule, but it's the rule. Justify not following it all everyone wants, but at the end of the day the rule still exists and I believe it should be followed by everyone.
Yes, you are. Looking at your profile, you're proving my exact point about which I wrote earlier in the thread:

"The problem was that even when they changed the rule, there was always an unspoken/unwritten rule that those who currently had teams could stay where they were. That's why no one said anything for a year or so after they changed it. It was only when new coaches came in ******** about it - not understanding the history behind it - that seble did anything."
5/25/2013 5:18 PM
Posted by emy1013 on 5/25/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 5/25/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
"Is it not dishonest to own two teams within 1000 miles and pretend that you aren't?  One agrees to the fair play guidelines, then takes two teams within 1000 miles.  Is it not dishonest to purposefully violate the rules.  Is it not defrauding other customers (and deceitful) when you gain advantage buy taking two teams within 1000 miles."

So many assumptions...
The problem with this quote is the part about "then takes two teams within 1000 miles".  The scenarios that many people have brought up involve coaches that ALREADY HAD teams within 1000 miles.  So how is that being dishonest when the rules in place when they initially picked up both teams allowed for that?

For the first 7 years I played HD, it was okay to have two teams within 1000 miles of each other.  Coaches that did were within the rules, therefore they were "honest".  Within the last year the rule changed arbitrarily, so now all those coaches who were "honest" for those 7 years are now somehow "dishonest"?  
Anyone who has added "Credit" to a team that they already owned said they would adhere to the fair play guidelines at the time they paid for more seasons.

If they are willfully violating the rules, then yes they are lying .. because they profess to follow the rules now, and they are not.

5/25/2013 5:41 PM (edited)
Posted by hughesjr on 5/25/2013 5:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by emy1013 on 5/25/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 5/25/2013 11:00:00 AM (view original):
"Is it not dishonest to own two teams within 1000 miles and pretend that you aren't?  One agrees to the fair play guidelines, then takes two teams within 1000 miles.  Is it not dishonest to purposefully violate the rules.  Is it not defrauding other customers (and deceitful) when you gain advantage buy taking two teams within 1000 miles."

So many assumptions...
The problem with this quote is the part about "then takes two teams within 1000 miles".  The scenarios that many people have brought up involve coaches that ALREADY HAD teams within 1000 miles.  So how is that being dishonest when the rules in place when they initially picked up both teams allowed for that?

For the first 7 years I played HD, it was okay to have two teams within 1000 miles of each other.  Coaches that did were within the rules, therefore they were "honest".  Within the last year the rule changed arbitrarily, so now all those coaches who were "honest" for those 7 years are now somehow "dishonest"?  
Anyone who has added "Credit" to a team that they already owned said they would adhere to the fair play guidelines at the time they paid for more seasons.

If they are willfully violating the rules, then yes they are lying .. because they profess to follow the rules now, and they are not.

And what if (no pun intended) they were so successful in the past that they had a dozen or more seasons already on their account (and there were coaches who were that successful), that they haven't had to "pay" or add "credit" to their accounts for a year and a half or more (think Billy_G or Aejones.  Rails.  Oldresorter.  Acn.  Emy.  Grecianfox.  ARomano.  Uglyskunk. Chapelhillne......the list goes on and on)?  What then?  I know of at least two coaches personally who fit that description.  What then?  According to your own logic, if they haven't added "credit" since the fairplay guidelines were changed, then they haven't willfully violated the rules.  Right?

5/25/2013 8:17 PM (edited)
the whole argument of if someone willfully followed the rules or not, is simply not the point. the people who keep beating that drum are looking at the small picture, not the big one. old admin, who made this game, *WOULD HAVE NEVER PULLED THIS *****. its so obviously bad when such a big % of the population of this game is predicated on people having multiple teams. seble doesnt really understand, and he didnt have a problem either, he is just trying to silence the whiners. further, there was no provision or guidance on how to unwind - rather, it was more like emy said, seble wont do anything unless someone cheats and gets reported for it (cheating meaning, abusing the two teams for an unfair advantage).problem is, people started complaining WITHOUT those coaches doing anything unreasonable between teams. hughes, explain how me having a d1 A+ prestige team and a d2 team within 1000 miles is an unfair advantage *even without intentional abuse*, as you suggest it must be. its god damn ridiculous, their pools of recruits dont overlap not even for one guy. its not even close. to claim that is an unfair advantage is just ignorant, plain and simple. so yeah, i know my a+ school isnt going after that 200 miles away guy i really want on my d2 school. ok. tell me something i didnt already know. seriously, please do... its just stupid. 

the big picture is this. this game is strictly for fun, and this game needs a healthy population to be a fun game (what it doesnt need to be a fun game, is the policing of ridiculous rules). thats the gigantic flashing sign in the sky you all seem to ignore. this game needs a healthy population and its struggled to grow for many years. what keeps things going is the few coaches who do play often get hooked and pick up multiple teams. sometimes they are in different worlds, sometimes, the same world. to prioritize eliminating maybe possibly a guy gets some miniscule unmeasurable advantage from having 2 d1 schools 800 miles apart, not intentionally abusing it, over the healthy population of this game, it just makes no sense at all. the big picture is there, some of you guys are refusing to look at it. if it was reasonable to put the rule in place, it was non arbitrary to draw the line at 1000, if there was any legitimacy at all, it would be different.
5/25/2013 8:44 PM
Posted by gillispie on 5/25/2013 8:17:00 PM (view original):
the whole argument of if someone willfully followed the rules or not, is simply not the point. the people who keep beating that drum are looking at the small picture, not the big one. old admin, who made this game, *WOULD HAVE NEVER PULLED THIS *****. its so obviously bad when such a big % of the population of this game is predicated on people having multiple teams. seble doesnt really understand, and he didnt have a problem either, he is just trying to silence the whiners. further, there was no provision or guidance on how to unwind - rather, it was more like emy said, seble wont do anything unless someone cheats and gets reported for it (cheating meaning, abusing the two teams for an unfair advantage).problem is, people started complaining WITHOUT those coaches doing anything unreasonable between teams. hughes, explain how me having a d1 A+ prestige team and a d2 team within 1000 miles is an unfair advantage *even without intentional abuse*, as you suggest it must be. its god damn ridiculous, their pools of recruits dont overlap not even for one guy. its not even close. to claim that is an unfair advantage is just ignorant, plain and simple. so yeah, i know my a+ school isnt going after that 200 miles away guy i really want on my d2 school. ok. tell me something i didnt already know. seriously, please do... its just stupid. 

the big picture is this. this game is strictly for fun, and this game needs a healthy population to be a fun game (what it doesnt need to be a fun game, is the policing of ridiculous rules). thats the gigantic flashing sign in the sky you all seem to ignore. this game needs a healthy population and its struggled to grow for many years. what keeps things going is the few coaches who do play often get hooked and pick up multiple teams. sometimes they are in different worlds, sometimes, the same world. to prioritize eliminating maybe possibly a guy gets some miniscule unmeasurable advantage from having 2 d1 schools 800 miles apart, not intentionally abusing it, over the healthy population of this game, it just makes no sense at all. the big picture is there, some of you guys are refusing to look at it. if it was reasonable to put the rule in place, it was non arbitrary to draw the line at 1000, if there was any legitimacy at all, it would be different.
Why the rule was developed or how is not relevant.

There is a rule and it is a violation of fair play to disregard the rule.

It does not even matter if there is or is not an advantage.

Fair game play means following the rules .. we don't get to pick only the ones we agree with.

5/25/2013 9:55 PM
isack, I don't know what my profile tells you other than I haven't been here for an extended period of time. I'm not shouting from the rooftops that all violators should be tied to the stake. I've said it before, if I'm good enough, I can compete against anyone, regardless if they may be cheating or not. I may not be a world beater, but I am more than holding my own. I'm sorry that there was an unwritten/unspoken rule which now seems to have been renegged upon. All I'm saying is that there is a written rule about not having two teams within 1000 miles in the same world. That this rule is suddenly being enforced, for whatever reason, shouldn't shock anyone. At the very least, it had to be a thought in the back of everyone's mind that this could eventually happen. I'm just sick of the mud flinging from both sides.
angmar, I don't know what the solution is to your question. Perhaps credits for a new team in another world, or even seeing if that team is occupied in another world and if it isn't, transfer the entire team to that world. I don't know exactly what it would be. Whatever it is, it won't satisfy everyone. As far as being fair, we all know life isn't fair, so why assume the answer to this would be either?
5/25/2013 10:32 PM
Posted by supersloth33 on 5/25/2013 9:55:00 PM (view original):
isack, I don't know what my profile tells you other than I haven't been here for an extended period of time. I'm not shouting from the rooftops that all violators should be tied to the stake. I've said it before, if I'm good enough, I can compete against anyone, regardless if they may be cheating or not. I may not be a world beater, but I am more than holding my own. I'm sorry that there was an unwritten/unspoken rule which now seems to have been renegged upon. All I'm saying is that there is a written rule about not having two teams within 1000 miles in the same world. That this rule is suddenly being enforced, for whatever reason, shouldn't shock anyone. At the very least, it had to be a thought in the back of everyone's mind that this could eventually happen. I'm just sick of the mud flinging from both sides.
angmar, I don't know what the solution is to your question. Perhaps credits for a new team in another world, or even seeing if that team is occupied in another world and if it isn't, transfer the entire team to that world. I don't know exactly what it would be. Whatever it is, it won't satisfy everyone. As far as being fair, we all know life isn't fair, so why assume the answer to this would be either?
Sloth, it's nice to see someone with an open mind.  Transferring that team/account to a different world might not be a popular solution but it's probably the best solution we've got, in all honesty.

As far as the 1000 mile rule goes, it's not so much that it's suddenly being enforced I don't think, but the fact that some arbitrary mileage was picked out and added to the Fairplay guidelines after the game had been running for approximately what, a dozen years (since, say, 2001.  That's close I think).  So for the first 11 years of the game, it had been fine to have two teams in the same world, regardless of distance.  As I understand it (from previous posts), the only thing prohibited was having teams in the same conference (which I could understand I suppose).  So for 11 years (give or take), coaches had been told that it was okay to have these two teams, then last year, out of the blue, the rule changes and these teams that had been authorized are now in violation.  After some coaches had spent eight, nine, even ten calendar years coaching these teams, teams that they had picked up within the rules, they are then told that all that time and money put into those teams (again teams that were chosen within the rules) were all for naught and they had to give up those teams (and all the time and money that went with them) for what?  Nothing.  See how that **** some people off.  These long time customers had/have contributed, oh I'd say, just a bit of money to the site and they were essentially told that "Sorry, we don't care about your loyalty to the game, the patience you exhibited through all the bugs, glitches, engine changes, on the job beta testing you did, etc., all that doesn't mean **** to us because some new coach who doesn't even come close to understanding the big picture complained and we don't want to hurt their feelings, so we're just gonna **** on you instead and make you **** away all the time and money you spent with your team, and oh yes, the best part is we're not going to compensate you in any way, shape, or form.  How do you like that"?  That's exactly what WIS and Seble did here.  Exactly.  And to those coaches who had to give up their long time dynasties, you should have just walked out the door after being treated like that.  Should have went waaaay over Seble's head and found out who HIS boss was and spoke to them.  If that didn't work, go to the next supervisor and keep going until you get one with a little common sense that realizes just how stupid of a business decision that the people running HD have made.  Nothing like shitting on your most loyal customers, that's the best way to run a business, no question about it.  The person who made this call, who made this terrible decision, obviously without thinking through the consequences, really, really dropped the ball on this one.  It's really a shame that there isn't a site that offers a game similar to this one because if there was, I have a very strong feeling that this place would be a ghost town.  As is, the people in charge know that there isn't one out there, so they apparently feel like they can treat their customers as shabbily as they want.  No updates for months, no sign that anyone is even at the wheel.  And when someone actually does show up, their means of deciding on an issue is to have a poll in a thread and take a frickin' vote.  What the hell kind of leader is that?  
5/25/2013 10:37 PM
Posted by supersloth33 on 5/25/2013 9:55:00 PM (view original):
isack, I don't know what my profile tells you other than I haven't been here for an extended period of time. I'm not shouting from the rooftops that all violators should be tied to the stake. I've said it before, if I'm good enough, I can compete against anyone, regardless if they may be cheating or not. I may not be a world beater, but I am more than holding my own. I'm sorry that there was an unwritten/unspoken rule which now seems to have been renegged upon. All I'm saying is that there is a written rule about not having two teams within 1000 miles in the same world. That this rule is suddenly being enforced, for whatever reason, shouldn't shock anyone. At the very least, it had to be a thought in the back of everyone's mind that this could eventually happen. I'm just sick of the mud flinging from both sides.
angmar, I don't know what the solution is to your question. Perhaps credits for a new team in another world, or even seeing if that team is occupied in another world and if it isn't, transfer the entire team to that world. I don't know exactly what it would be. Whatever it is, it won't satisfy everyone. As far as being fair, we all know life isn't fair, so why assume the answer to this would be either?
First of all, your "age" is exactly what he was referring to.

Secondly, there are several problems with this rule. I tend to land on the side emy and billyg and Ike are arguing, however from your perspective:

Selective enforcement. There should be full enforcement of the rule or they should remove the rule. Instead, they only enforce it on coaches who have been upfront (and generally, overwhelmingly honest) about their alternate IDs, and then someone like stinenavy gets his panties in a wad, goes after one coach, and continues his McCarthy witch hunt because he either A) views himself as some protector of the higher moral ground, or B) feels he needs to continue the campaign in order to try and prove a higher moral ground stemming from the first instance, to try and prove to the masses he is truly doing this for good. Probably it's a mixture of both.

And the reason it should be fair is this is a controlled environment where it CAN be fair. They've screwed it up now, so in this particular instance it can't be, but they could have easily grandfathered people in that were upfront with aliases and then enforced the rules, across the board, for those who weren't.
5/25/2013 10:43 PM (edited)
Sloth, my comment had nothing to do with your success. It has to do with your time. It doesn't render your opinion irrelevant, but it certainly lacks context.

Of course it matters that people played the game for a decade in a certain way, pumping time and money in. Of course it matters that when the rule changed, WiS did nothing about this issue. And of course it was surprising that WiS randomly started to enforce the rule when they had made relatively clear they weren't going to enforce the rule against veterans who had these teams before the rule changed.

So yes, that you have been here for only a limited time does matter. Why do you think the most adamant supporters of strict enforcement with no regard for those who, in my opinion, should have gained grandfather status, are newer users? It's because, like anything else, understanding the history behind the creation and to-this-point lack of enforcement of the rule, is extremely important, hughes' cries of black and whiteness notwithstanding.

At the end of the day, you haven't put much time, effort, or money into this game. But the people who are dropping their teams are active members of this community, and have dumped hundreds, probably thousands, of dollars into the site. If you like playing, you should be thanking them, because without them, this site wouldn't exist. Instead we have people playing an unfortunate game of strict rule interpretation without consideration of consequences.
5/25/2013 11:05 PM
Posted by isack24 on 5/25/2013 10:43:00 PM (view original):
Sloth, my comment had nothing to do with your success. It has to do with your time. It doesn't render your opinion irrelevant, but it certainly lacks context.

Of course it matters that people played the game for a decade in a certain way, pumping time and money in. Of course it matters that when the rule changed, WiS did nothing about this issue. And of course it was surprising that WiS randomly started to enforce the rule when they had made relatively clear they weren't going to enforce the rule against veterans who had these teams before the rule changed.

So yes, that you have been here for only a limited time does matter. Why do you think the most adamant supporters of strict enforcement with no regard for those who, in my opinion, should have gained grandfather status, are newer users? It's because, like anything else, understanding the history behind the creation and to-this-point lack of enforcement of the rule, is extremely important, hughes' cries of black and whiteness notwithstanding.

At the end of the day, you haven't put much time, effort, or money into this game. But the people who are dropping their teams are active members of this community, and have dumped hundreds, probably thousands, of dollars into the site. If you like playing, you should be thanking them, because without them, this site wouldn't exist. Instead we have people playing an unfortunate game of strict rule interpretation without consideration of consequences.
Well put Isack, well put.
5/25/2013 11:06 PM
Posted by caesari on 5/25/2013 10:37:00 PM (view original):
Posted by supersloth33 on 5/25/2013 9:55:00 PM (view original):
isack, I don't know what my profile tells you other than I haven't been here for an extended period of time. I'm not shouting from the rooftops that all violators should be tied to the stake. I've said it before, if I'm good enough, I can compete against anyone, regardless if they may be cheating or not. I may not be a world beater, but I am more than holding my own. I'm sorry that there was an unwritten/unspoken rule which now seems to have been renegged upon. All I'm saying is that there is a written rule about not having two teams within 1000 miles in the same world. That this rule is suddenly being enforced, for whatever reason, shouldn't shock anyone. At the very least, it had to be a thought in the back of everyone's mind that this could eventually happen. I'm just sick of the mud flinging from both sides.
angmar, I don't know what the solution is to your question. Perhaps credits for a new team in another world, or even seeing if that team is occupied in another world and if it isn't, transfer the entire team to that world. I don't know exactly what it would be. Whatever it is, it won't satisfy everyone. As far as being fair, we all know life isn't fair, so why assume the answer to this would be either?
First of all, your "age" is exactly what he was referring to.

Secondly, there are several problems with this rule. I tend to land on the side emy and billyg and Ike are arguing, however from your perspective:

Selective enforcement. There should be full enforcement of the rule or they should remove the rule. Instead, they only enforce it on coaches who have been upfront (and generally, overwhelmingly honest) about their alternate IDs, and then someone like stinenavy gets his panties in a wad, goes after one coach, and continues his McCarthy witch hunt because he either A) views himself as some protector of the higher moral ground, or B) feels he needs to continue the campaign in order to try and prove a higher moral ground stemming from the first instance, to try and prove to the masses he is truly doing this for good. Probably it's a mixture of both.

And the reason it should be fair is this is a controlled environment where it CAN be fair. They've screwed it up now, so in this particular instance it can't be, but they could have easily grandfathered people in that were upfront with aliases and then enforced the rules, across the board, for those who weren't.
This is also very well said.
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