6/2/2013 12:34 PM
Posted by bagchucker on 6/2/2013 1:14:00 AM (view original):
a formation is not an offense

an offense is a philosophy and a plan of action

a formation is just a guise
So, a formation with 3 RB's and 2 TE's can be audibled to shotgun? If we could say "hey lets put WR in as RB and TE" maybe it could happen. Its just now how it works in this game. 
6/2/2013 3:11 PM
and you don't see that as making it an inept simulation
6/2/2013 3:16 PM
Posted by bagchucker on 6/2/2013 3:11:00 PM (view original):
and you don't see that as making it an inept simulation
I see that as having reasonable limits.... In a game like this that would be cheese that made nano blitzes in madden look like legitimate parts of the game. 
6/3/2013 9:56 AM
Thanks for all the input guys. Obviously the Passing game still seems to be out of whack so I'll look into that this week. I'll try to smooth everything out so that it feels real. The other stuff will come in as we can smooth some of these tricky spots out. You input has been logged and I'll get through my list the best I can. Again, thanks for the support and I look forward to hearing about what you think of the latest tweaks as I get them in, so I'll be sure to update you when there is new stuff to look at. 

Also, concerning the conversation about playability and reality of play, I do not believe that one has to come at the expense of the other. I'll be working hard the next few weeks to make it easier to play and understand the game while keeping the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real life) college football season.

 
6/3/2013 12:00 PM
Posted by oriole_fan on 6/3/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for all the input guys. Obviously the Passing game still seems to be out of whack so I'll look into that this week. I'll try to smooth everything out so that it feels real. The other stuff will come in as we can smooth some of these tricky spots out. You input has been logged and I'll get through my list the best I can. Again, thanks for the support and I look forward to hearing about what you think of the latest tweaks as I get them in, so I'll be sure to update you when there is new stuff to look at. 

Also, concerning the conversation about playability and reality of play, I do not believe that one has to come at the expense of the other. I'll be working hard the next few weeks to make it easier to play and understand the game while keeping the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real life) college football season.

 
Keep the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real llfe) college football season only when simming against teams of equal talent.  Talent should still be a large factor in how realistic those numbers should be.
6/3/2013 1:47 PM
Posted by slid64er on 6/3/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oriole_fan on 6/3/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for all the input guys. Obviously the Passing game still seems to be out of whack so I'll look into that this week. I'll try to smooth everything out so that it feels real. The other stuff will come in as we can smooth some of these tricky spots out. You input has been logged and I'll get through my list the best I can. Again, thanks for the support and I look forward to hearing about what you think of the latest tweaks as I get them in, so I'll be sure to update you when there is new stuff to look at. 

Also, concerning the conversation about playability and reality of play, I do not believe that one has to come at the expense of the other. I'll be working hard the next few weeks to make it easier to play and understand the game while keeping the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real life) college football season.

 
Keep the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real llfe) college football season only when simming against teams of equal talent.  Talent should still be a large factor in how realistic those numbers should be.
I seriously hope he does not listen to you. I will not play this game you seem to enjoy. Talent should be the factor, but there are wide disparities of talent in real life as well particularly in DII and DIII. If there are talent descrepencies that are larger then what they are in real life between the best and worst teams that are so bad it causes ridiculous stats, then recruit/player generation should be looked at as a problem. Either way, I'm good. I do not enjoy a team beating another 120-0 nor do I enjoy a game that allows for 120-115 games on a regular basis. For pete's sake there were weeks in the playoffs where teams AVERAGED 60 points a game. 
6/3/2013 1:57 PM
If talent is chief in the simulation there is no need for it to end in games like this one....


Final - 5/28/2013
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
OT
F
#1
Valdosta State (16-2)
49
66
49
49
 
213
#22
Pace (11-4)
21
49
28
31
 
129
6/3/2013 2:45 PM
Posted by noah23 on 6/3/2013 1:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 6/3/2013 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oriole_fan on 6/3/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for all the input guys. Obviously the Passing game still seems to be out of whack so I'll look into that this week. I'll try to smooth everything out so that it feels real. The other stuff will come in as we can smooth some of these tricky spots out. You input has been logged and I'll get through my list the best I can. Again, thanks for the support and I look forward to hearing about what you think of the latest tweaks as I get them in, so I'll be sure to update you when there is new stuff to look at. 

Also, concerning the conversation about playability and reality of play, I do not believe that one has to come at the expense of the other. I'll be working hard the next few weeks to make it easier to play and understand the game while keeping the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real life) college football season.

 
Keep the stats close to numbers that are seen in a normal (real llfe) college football season only when simming against teams of equal talent.  Talent should still be a large factor in how realistic those numbers should be.
I seriously hope he does not listen to you. I will not play this game you seem to enjoy. Talent should be the factor, but there are wide disparities of talent in real life as well particularly in DII and DIII. If there are talent descrepencies that are larger then what they are in real life between the best and worst teams that are so bad it causes ridiculous stats, then recruit/player generation should be looked at as a problem. Either way, I'm good. I do not enjoy a team beating another 120-0 nor do I enjoy a game that allows for 120-115 games on a regular basis. For pete's sake there were weeks in the playoffs where teams AVERAGED 60 points a game. 
I think it's fine that we have differing opinions, it creates good debate.

Having said that, this line of thinking (no unrealistic scores, everyone has a chance to win every game) is what killed GD.  This was a driving force for 2.0, jconte said outright that 2.0 was designed to end dynasties.  In order to keep scores realistic and give every team a chance to win every game, he had to significantly shrink the effect of differentials in all the levers of the game, especially talent.  What that did was allow any reasonably coached team a legitimate chance at an NC, but it made all the little things that made great teams pretty worthless.  Coaches who didn't put in the time or effort to learn the nuances of the game loved it because it gave them a much higher chance of winning an NC, they just needed to get on a lucky streak in the playoffs.  Those that expected to win with superior talent and gameplanning left.  Now the worlds are empty.

As I see it, your suggestions suggest to me that you want to level the playing field for incompetent coaches.  I, and many other coaches I've known in my time with GD, are vehemently opposed to this.  So much so that most have left or have a minimal number of teams.  It killed the game we loved and the worlds are empty.

As I've said before, passing is broken.  It is especially apparent when two passing teams play each other.  But, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be blowout games.  I'm fine with the 120-0 games where one team is vastly superior to another.  I'm against the 120-115 games where the scores are only high because of passing being broken.
6/3/2013 2:51 PM
Except my suggestion is not to level the playing field. I still want those teams that lose 120-0 to lose 60 or 70 or even 80 to nothing. You don't have to scale down the effect of talent to create realistic scores. All you have to look at to know that this is true is a superior simulation engine like out of the park baseball. It still has issues, but it creates realistic results for the most part without sacrificing the difference in talent. So, since I've seen it happen I cannot accept that it cannot happen. Particularly when we have an indepth user involved beta to work on it with. One clear thing I am seeing is that chuck and pray offenses do not fatigue nearly as much as they should. 
6/3/2013 3:12 PM
I've never seen out of the park baseball.  In SimLeague baseball and Strat o Matic i've seen all 162 games simmed.  In these cases, with 162 data points, you can get much closer to expected results on average than with only 13 data points.  It's simple statistics.  On top of the number or data points, baseball sims typically use actual historical data to create results, this is not done in GD since norbert decided this engine setup was "better".  

Anytime you create an artificial floor or ceiling, you scale down determining factors.  Again, simple statistics.  And with only 13 outcomes a season, leveling the playing field in any way can be catastrophic.  
6/3/2013 3:14 PM
There doesn't need to be an artificial floor or ceiling to curb people scoring 120 points. A working fatigue system and a proper time per play system would go a long way towards eliminating these problems. It won't eliminate unrealistic results, but what it will do is make it so that they are outliers...not normal gameplay. I don't think if fatigue, injury, and time per play being executed normally that these would be prevalent at all. I mean.... would you use the chuck and pray offense if your best players were wore down with huge chances of injury while they are worn down?
6/3/2013 6:34 PM
I've already brought up both time of plays and fatigue.  Even with those being fixed, I have no problem with blowout games against inferior opposition.
6/3/2013 7:17 PM
They won't happen..not 120-0. If fatigue and times per play and injury engine are all fixed. 
6/3/2013 7:21 PM
They should happen for reasons I have given before.
6/3/2013 7:25 PM
Then something would still be broken. 
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