All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Anybody watching Spurs/Heat game...thoughts?
6/18/2013 10:47 AM
Posted by ll316 on 6/17/2013 1:50:00 PM (view original):
"LeBron quit on his team in the midst of a playoff game."  That's exactly why I hate Kobe and Lebron equally.  (And Pippen, for that matter)
Pippen is my all-time favorite player, and that moment disappointed me, but it doesn't lessen my opinion of him. 
6/18/2013 10:52 AM
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 10:42:00 AM (view original):
Posted by darnoc29099 on 6/18/2013 8:39:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bistiza on 6/17/2013 1:51:00 PM (view original):
Kobe and Pippen didn't make a public spectacle of screwing over their team as they left.
Lebron didn't either.  Cleveland didn't lock him up to a long-term contract, making him a free agent, therefore he didn't technically have a team to screw over when "The Decision" was aired. 
lebron would not agree to a long term contact with cleveland because he and wade and bosh had planned out a year before that they were all joining up in miami. and that is why many people think lebron played so horribly in the boston series his last season in cleveland...he had to tank in the playoffs that season because if he managed to win the nba championship, then he certainly could not have carried out his plans to join his buddies in miami while claiming that he was doing it to win a title. and as a sidenote...the cavs inability to lock him up long term wasnt based on their lack of trying...they made every free agent and roster move they could that lebron wanted to try to keep him happy...they brought in a variety of guys to attempt to give lebron some help...flip murray, drew gooden, ben wallace, joe smith, wally sczerbiak, delonte west, mo williams, antawn jamison, shaquille oneal...they even fired mike brown and brought in byron scott to attempt to please lebron...but lebron is an egomaniac...he wont sign a long term deal with miami before his current contract expires either...he loves the attention and relishes every team in the nba drooling over the opportunity to sign him
LeBron played so horribly? Are the expectations really so high that he goes out and averages 27, 9, and 7 and it's considered he played horribly? In game 6 LeBron had 27, 19, and 10! Anybody else could have 27, 19, and 10 and everybody would be saying what a great game he had, but LeBron does it, and nobody cares. He had two games in the series where he had 35 or more points. Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting. He didn't make a conscious decision to not give the effort necessary to win. He wasn't mentally as strong as he needed to be back then. 
6/18/2013 10:55 AM
LOL. I love that list of guys they brought in to appease LeBron.  How could he NOT be impressed by that?
6/18/2013 11:17 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting.

You never quit if you have any resepct, and you don't let other teams "bully" you into quitting. That's a BS excuse for LeBron to quit on his team.
Can't claim to be the greatest of all time while playing the victim card at the same time.  A quitter is a quitter.
6/18/2013 11:20 AM
So who was the one that brought up karma in this thread?
6/18/2013 11:29 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 11:15:00 AM (view original):
Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting.

You never quit if you have any resepct, and you don't let other teams "bully" you into quitting. That's a BS excuse for LeBron to quit on his team.
There is a difference between giving an excuse and stating a reason. I never said it was OK that he quit, I plainly stated he needed to be mentally stronger. Making an excuse is saying it's not his fault, I did no such thing. Also the Cavs got destroyed in that game: they lost by 32, it's not like the rest of the team gave great effort, Shaq was the Cavs best player in that game for goodness sake, lol. 
6/18/2013 11:32 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Can't claim to be the greatest of all time while playing the victim card at the same time.  A quitter is a quitter.

Well said.

Funny, I don't recall any time where Magic or Bird or MJ got accused of quitting on their team. In fact, very few great players get that label (which is why it gets brought up when they do, i.e. Kobe and Pippen).

LeBron has massive talent, but he's also a massive piece of **** when it comes to the way he's acted - edited to remind you all that this is just my opinion.
You are clearly one of those people who puts way too much importance into sports when determining a person's character. A) what LeBron did wasn't that big of a deal, and B) judging him based on a career decision that you disagree with is extremely shortsighted. You have made a conscious decision to ignore anything he may do off the court that completely goes against the notion that he is a piece of **** simply because you disagree with the way he handled a career decision that you or any of us will never be in a remotely similar position to make, so there is no way you can judge what you would do. 
6/18/2013 11:32 AM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 9:56:00 AM (view original):
Lebron didn't either.  Cleveland didn't lock him up to a long-term contract, making him a free agent, therefore he didn't technically have a team to screw over when "The Decision" was aired. 

It doesn't matter if he was technically signed to a contract or not. What he did was disrespectful not just to the Cavs franchise, but more importantly, to its fans.

No offense, but if don't get that and are unwilling to even try to understand why some people might feel the way they do - particularly Cavs fans - then there isn't any point to you offering an opinion on the matter as you don't understand it to begin with.
So, does the NBA want there to be a game 7?  Will Stern be watching that the officials make it so?  Cue the X-files music.......

Of course the NBA "wants" game 7. If the NBA could write this, it would be the Heat winning in 7 (which may happen). Hopefully the Spurs can win in 6.
This is kinda funny.  First, given you're pretty much alone in the "what Lebron did was wrong" camp, I don't think it's me who doesn't understand the issue at hand.  But I appreciate you telling me I shouldn't offer an opinion on this since that's the same thing  claim jsajsa did to you that ****** you off.  Kinda hypocritical.  But hey, what do I know...I'm too close-minded apparently to see different points of view.

Bottom line is he was unemployed at the time he made his decision.  It's no different than a contract worker in real life, like a physical therapist, nurse, or consultant.  They work for a company for a given period of time and look for a new gig when the contract ends.  The company can choose to renew the contract before it's over (obviously if both sides are agreeable to the terms).  When you're a free agent, your prior company doesn't get "dibs" on you.  Lebron made the decision that he felt was best for HIM.  The general public criticizes athletes for selling out and following the money; well, Lebron took less money to play in Miami.  He went where he felt he had the best chance to win.  Period.  I'm trying to understand where your coming from here, bis, but the major hang up is you seem to feel athletes should cater to their fan base, and Lebron didn't, and that makes him a bad person in your mind.  I guess we just have agree to disagree on that point.  I think most agree the "The Decision" telecast was a joke.  Yeah, it raised money, which is great, but it was an unnecessary spectacle. 
6/18/2013 11:46 AM
I still don't understand what Lebron did that was SOO wrong. He played out his contract... He didn't bail like Carmelo and Dwight - even Dwight stayed an extra season - or Chris Paul. The man honored his contract and for whatever reason was unhappy (most likely the crappy over the hill players Cleveland kept signing) and decided to play with Miami. Again I can see why Cavs fans are upset but I think everyone else is upset because he didn't choose to go to their team lol so that's just hate. You can argue the decision was a terrible idea but at the end of the day millions watched it and that was really the point I guess-the attention. Is that bad? maybe- but not to the point where this guy is the most dispicable player in the universe.
 
If the Cavs did offer Lebron new contract after new contract and he declined - then they had to know something bad was coming. You have to know there is a possibility the guy wouldn't resign so everyone that is making this look like some kind of blindside move by Lebron is ignoring the fact that he never received a new contract offer which if he did it wasn't publicized like Carmelo's unsigned contract. From what I saw in the media, the effort on the end of the cavs- aside from firing Mike Brown wasn't there. 

Everyone says Lebron "gave up" against Boston lol but doesn't blame the team as a whole. If a guy is getting zoned out of the paint and is also being double and triple teamed... what is one man supposed to do other than pass the ball? If Lebron passes the ball and Mo Williams can't hit an open shot or anyone else for that matter what's he supposed to do? Jordan ALWAYS had someone else he could rely on. Lebron moves to Miami and they win a ring playing small ball lol... what other team has won a ring without a legitimate big man? A big that specilizes in something (RB, LP, DEF)? That's impressive enough in itself to me. But that's just my opinion.  
6/18/2013 12:11 PM
Posted by bistiza on 6/18/2013 11:22:00 AM (view original):
So who was the one that brought up karma in this thread?

I already said I brought it up in the thread as a part of making dual points about both LeBron and the idea that "karma" doesn't exist.

What's your point?

So you brought up your terrible karma interpretation so you could rail against the concept of karma. Ok...

I'll try my question again.

If karma should get LeBron a career ending injury do to leaving his team by announcing it on a TV show, what should Carmelo Anthony (Carmelodrama) and Dwight Howard (Dwightmare) get?
6/18/2013 12:13 PM
"Please stop reading things into my posts that simply aren't there." -- bistiza

"Still, if it was LeBron himself saying what you said, I'd still think it was an excuse for quitting." -- bistiza

Oh, ok.
6/18/2013 1:07 PM
LeBron played so horribly? Are the expectations really so high that he goes out and averages 27, 9, and 7 and it's considered he played horribly? In game 6 LeBron had 27, 19, and 10! Anybody else could have 27, 19, and 10 and everybody would be saying what a great game he had, but LeBron does it, and nobody cares. He had two games in the series where he had 35 or more points. Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting. He didn't make a conscious decision to not give the effort necessary to win. He wasn't mentally as strong as he needed to be back then.

did you even watch that series against boston, or are you just looking back at some stats on your computer? that was the least aggressive lebron james ive ever watched...even less aggressive than against dallas in the finals 2 seasons ago. lebron sat outside and shot jumpers the vast majority of the series. in their 4 losses...he shot a combined 25/68...37%. and that includes the game he completely quit...game 5...IN CLEVELAND...where he was 3/14 from the field. clevelands other 4 starters...antawn jamison, shaquille oneal, mo williams and anthony parker all had as many or more baskets than lebron did in that game...how does that even happen?!?! it happened because the series was tied at 2 and the cavs were playing at home and lebron said to himself..."crap, if we win this one we might win the series...and ive already got that plane ticket to miami...i better completely take this game off to make sure i dont miss that shindig at wade's crib next week"...and as for the players the cavs brought in during the lebron era...lebron himself signed off on a majority of those transactions...i dont blame people for not knowing that...but unless you live here...you dont realize...the cavs didnt do much of anything without lebrons blessing. and i fault the cavs for that...the organization needs to make the business decisions and leave the the players to handling the business on the court...but they didnt want to **** off their superstar so they basically let him run the team
6/18/2013 1:50 PM (edited)
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 1:07:00 PM (view original):
LeBron played so horribly? Are the expectations really so high that he goes out and averages 27, 9, and 7 and it's considered he played horribly? In game 6 LeBron had 27, 19, and 10! Anybody else could have 27, 19, and 10 and everybody would be saying what a great game he had, but LeBron does it, and nobody cares. He had two games in the series where he had 35 or more points. Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting. He didn't make a conscious decision to not give the effort necessary to win. He wasn't mentally as strong as he needed to be back then.

did you even watch that series against boston, or are you just looking back at some stats on your computer? that was the least aggressive lebron james ive ever watched...even less aggressive than against dallas in the finals 2 seasons ago. lebron sat outside and shot jumpers the vast majority of the series. in their 4 losses...he shot a combined 25/68...37%. and that includes the game he completely quit...game 5...IN CLEVELAND...where he was 3/14 from the field. clevelands other 4 starters...antawn jamison, shaquille oneal, mo williams and anthony parker all had as many or more baskets than lebron did in that game...how does that even happen?!?! it happened because the series was tied at 2 and the cavs were playing at home and lebron said to himself..."crap, if we win this one we might win the series...and ive already got that plane ticket to miami...i better completely take this game off to make sure i dont miss that shindig at wade's crib next week"...and as for the players the cavs brought in during the lebron era...lebron himself signed off on a majority of those transactions...i dont blame people for not knowing that...but unless you live here...you dont realize...the cavs didnt do much of anything without lebrons blessing. and i fault the cavs for that...the organization needs to make the business decisions and leave the the players to handling the business on the court...but they didnt want to **** off their superstar so they basically let him run the team
Really? This is the thought process of LeBron haters. So a series where LeBron had 3 huge games he was less aggressive than he was in a series where he was the team's 3rd leading scorer and took the 3rd most shots? In the Mavs series he took 90 shots and 20 free throws, in the Celtics series he took 114 shots and 70 free throws. The free throw attempts alone let you know he was far more aggressive in the Celtics series. He also rebounded better and got more assists in the Celtics series. He had 3 huge games, I don't know how taking 24 shots and scoring 35 points while throwing in 7 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 steals, and 2 blocks for good measure is not being aggressive, or how scoring 38 points on 22 shots, with 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 1 steal and a block isn't being aggressive, or how taking 21 shots and getting 27 points, 19 rebounds, and 10 assists, with 3 steals shows a lack of effort. The fact that he had 9 turnovers, shows that he was trying to do too much in game 6. But I know, since you have this consipracy theory in your head you will say he had all those turnovers on purpose trying to sabotage the game. 

I also don't understand how winning the Celtic series would have prevented him from leaving if he wanted to. If his plan was to leave Cleveland, why would it matter if they won or lost that series? Are you saying he couldn't possibly justify leaving if the Cavs somehow won the title? There's no championship clause in NBA contracts. 

If you want to say he quit in game 5, then cool, but let's be realistic and not just spout whatever comes to our minds to make our claims stronger. 

6/18/2013 2:01 PM
Posted by andrew5975 on 6/18/2013 1:07:00 PM (view original):
LeBron played so horribly? Are the expectations really so high that he goes out and averages 27, 9, and 7 and it's considered he played horribly? In game 6 LeBron had 27, 19, and 10! Anybody else could have 27, 19, and 10 and everybody would be saying what a great game he had, but LeBron does it, and nobody cares. He had two games in the series where he had 35 or more points. Game 5 the Celtics just took him out of the game mentally, as I said before they bullied him into quitting. He didn't make a conscious decision to not give the effort necessary to win. He wasn't mentally as strong as he needed to be back then.

did you even watch that series against boston, or are you just looking back at some stats on your computer? that was the least aggressive lebron james ive ever watched...even less aggressive than against dallas in the finals 2 seasons ago. lebron sat outside and shot jumpers the vast majority of the series. in their 4 losses...he shot a combined 25/68...37%. and that includes the game he completely quit...game 5...IN CLEVELAND...where he was 3/14 from the field. clevelands other 4 starters...antawn jamison, shaquille oneal, mo williams and anthony parker all had as many or more baskets than lebron did in that game...how does that even happen?!?! it happened because the series was tied at 2 and the cavs were playing at home and lebron said to himself..."crap, if we win this one we might win the series...and ive already got that plane ticket to miami...i better completely take this game off to make sure i dont miss that shindig at wade's crib next week"...and as for the players the cavs brought in during the lebron era...lebron himself signed off on a majority of those transactions...i dont blame people for not knowing that...but unless you live here...you dont realize...the cavs didnt do much of anything without lebrons blessing. and i fault the cavs for that...the organization needs to make the business decisions and leave the the players to handling the business on the court...but they didnt want to **** off their superstar so they basically let him run the team
You don't have to be from Cleveland to know that they were running things by LeBron.  That's pretty much par for the course anyhow.  Still doesn't negate the fact that they put a team around him that won 20 games after he left.  You think he wouldn't have signed off on better moves?
6/18/2013 3:18 PM
It pretty clearly means that you feel justified in jumping to conclusions about what someone else means, but are somehow horrified when someone jumps to conclusions about you.
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