Fair enough....

Then what the hell have you been arguing with me over?   There's nothing new in that last post.    Hell, if I had to pick one pitcher, in their prime, for one game, I might get tired of naming guys before I got to Ryan.   But he had a very good, and very long, career.  20ish of all-time type career.

I'm just arguing the point that Ryan was NOT one of the best of all-time. I'd put him top 50, but top 20 is a bit of a stretch.

Posted by rsp777 on 8/2/2013 1:06:00 PM (view original):
I'm just arguing the point that Ryan was NOT one of the best of all-time. I'd put him top 50, but top 20 is a bit of a stretch.

What 49 pitchers' careers would you take ahead of him?

I'll spot you ten:

Clemens
Young
Walter Johnson
Grove
Seaver
Maddux
Randy Johnson
Pedro
Blyleven
Gibson

You'd take Blyleven over Ryan?  Not sure I would.  But:

Koufax
Drysdale
Sutton
Smoltz
Feller
Roberts
Mathewson
Brown
Rivera
Wood
Alexander
Ford
Palmer
Newhouser

I might be forgetting one or two, but that's about it...  So for me I have him in the ballpark of mid 20s.

Blyleven > Ryan.

LOL.

Posted by dahsdebater on 8/2/2013 2:06:00 PM (view original):
You'd take Blyleven over Ryan?  Not sure I would.  But:

Koufax
Drysdale
Sutton
Smoltz
Feller
Roberts
Mathewson
Brown
Rivera
Wood
Alexander
Ford
Palmer
Newhouser

I might be forgetting one or two, but that's about it...  So for me I have him in the ballpark of mid 20s.

Without looking, I think Ryan was probably better but he's looking for 49 pitchers, so I was being generous.

You putting Blyleven in that batch is nothing short of HILARIOUS. I'm not going to waste an hour of my life doing research for this argument...but there is NO WAY that Ryan makes my top 20. He'll, I'd take Jack F'n Morris over Ryan, so call me a ******** and call the argument closed. Ryan was essentially a bit above average, and nothing you can argue with will change my opinion.

Is there ANY meaningful statistical metric in which Jack Morris is better than Nolan Ryan?  I looked at their respective pages on BBR quickly, and I didn't see any.  Just a quick glance, but still...

I mean, I guess W%.  But very few people put a huge amount of stock in that.

I'm not reading through this whole thread, but Ryan easily has the best H/9 of all-time. He's at 6.55, Koufax is second at 6.79. His control wasn't great, but his stuff was nasty. A lot of hitters went up there knowing it was either gonna be a strikeout or a walk. His walks significantly hurt his value, but he's at very least a Top 20 pitcher.

His 7 no- hitters and over 5700 strikeouts alone got him into the Cooperstown Shrine- plus, he has a ring- which means a lot to the BBWAA voters.

Nolan Ryan. When he was on he was awesome, but you never knew what you were going to get. As I remember him, if his curve was working it was lights out, but he could be very wild and consistency was an issue. When he would pitch I would always watch because you never knew when it might be special (back then it was Monday night baseball or the Saturday game of the week). I believe that Ryan gets overrated or underrated by stat geeks. Some look at his K's, no hitters and longevity and want to make him the greatest pitcher of all time. Trust me he was no Tom Seaver who for some reason never gets his due anymore . Others look at his walks and try to diminish him. Yes, he is just an average pitcher with 7 no hitters and 5700 K's. That argument doesn't even make sense. Blyleven and Morris better than Ryan? Really? I would be very skeptical of any list of top 50 pitchers that did not include Ryan.
My Rating of pitchers I've personally seen pitch, not including current pitchers. I Saw Gibson and Marichal  but outside of the peak. So roughly the last 40+  years
1. T Seaver
2. P Martinez
3. G Maddux
4. R Johnson
5.  J Palmer
6.  R Clemens
7.  N Ryan
8. D Sutton
9. S Carlton
10. J Smoltz

Obviously the order might vary based on individual preference but I can't think of any other pitchers with completed careersbin the last 40 years that I would put on this list. Hunter? Niekro?

Well, Ryan is not top 50 in all time WHIP, if that is a stat you value?