All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > SimLeague Baseball > Hudson/Berkman debate
7/25/2013 11:54 AM
Arguing (friendly) over the value of Lance Berkman and Tim Hudson in a progressive league.

In my opinion, If you had to choose, you go with Hudson irrespective if need. I am not going by formula or anything but the eye test...it is much easier to put together an outfield than a staff. You get a shot at a solid pitcher like Hudson, you take it. You have far fewer headaches by prioritizing the staff over the outfield.

Anyone care to chime in?
7/25/2013 12:33 PM
Pretty good thread here on who the "must draft regardless of need" players are in progressives:
http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=447516

The 1999 draft is only mentioned once (the poster suggests that Halladay and Hudson are clear 1-2 before Berkman and others)...and I would tend to agree Hudson over Berkman is a no-brainer.

That said, I do not think it's ALWAYS true that you take a pitcher over a position player, even a good long term SP.  For example, I think you take Henderson over Stieb in 1979 (not even close in my mind) and Carter over Eck in 1975 (a somewhat closer decision, but not really a tough call to me).  There are other examples. 
7/25/2013 3:11 PM
I'd probably take a catcher or SS over a comparable SP. I'd consider a 2B or 3B based on era. But no way I'd take a corner OF/1B over a comparable pitcher. 

There's a lot of 1-year wonder SPs in the 90s/00s, but you have to take them the year before their great year and have to burn a pretty high pick on them. You can leave your corner OF slots until rounds 4-5 and fill them in the current year. 
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7/25/2013 7:28 PM
Posted by contrarian23 on 7/25/2013 12:33:00 PM (view original):
Pretty good thread here on who the "must draft regardless of need" players are in progressives:
http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=447516

The 1999 draft is only mentioned once (the poster suggests that Halladay and Hudson are clear 1-2 before Berkman and others)...and I would tend to agree Hudson over Berkman is a no-brainer.

That said, I do not think it's ALWAYS true that you take a pitcher over a position player, even a good long term SP.  For example, I think you take Henderson over Stieb in 1979 (not even close in my mind) and Carter over Eck in 1975 (a somewhat closer decision, but not really a tough call to me).  There are other examples. 
There are very few players I take over a sp with 10+ all star quality seasons. Rickey yes, Carter is a no.
7/27/2013 9:49 AM

Picking # 2 in a 1999 Draft at this moment.

Specsman selected Tim Hudson with the first pick in gonoles777's 12 Team League Draft started off the clock this morning.

All Forums SimLeague Baseball Progressive Draft Database 1999 Draft (Owner: crazystengel)

There are about a half dozen recaps of the early Rounds of the 1999 Draft in the link above. Here is one of those.


Posted by toysboys on 7/14/2012 12:06:00 AM (view original):
Round 1 -- Monday, Oct 25th  
1 10:00 AM Detroit Dreadnoughts mattedesa Tim Hudson
2 10:30 AM Toronto Blue Jays MVG99 Roy Halladay
3 11:00 AM Flushing Porcelain Gods zizzo24 Lance Berkman
4 11:30 AM Anaheim Halos acediamond77 Freddy Garcia
5 12:00 PM SF Giants meloidogyne Kris Benson
6 12:30 PM San Diego Surfdawgs abriggster Vernon Wells
7 1:00 PM Baltimore Oreos toddcommish Carlos Lee
8 1:30 PM Los Angeles Flies ShackAttack Matt Clement
9 2:00 PM Seattle Rainiers toysboys AJ Burnett
10 2:30 PM Cincinnati Redlegs Fungoes Joe Nathan
11 3:00 PM Pittsburgh Pirates simszy Jeff Weaver
12 3:30 PM Texas Rangers OPEN Randy Wolf
13 4:00 PM Chicago Curses WavelandGuy Eric Gagne
14 4:30 PM LaBronless in Cleve rocketj (via simszy) Torii Hunter
15 5:00 PM Philadelphia Phillies ace1430 Eric Chavez
16 5:30 PM Minnesota McGraws '98 mw100 Mike Lowell
17 6:00 PM St Louis Arch Enemy OPEN (via atl; benes) Ron Belliard
18 6:30 PM Pittsburgh Pirates simszy (via clevel) Paul Loduca
19 7:00 PM Boston Commoners r90377 Tino Martinez
20 7:30 PM oakland raiderettes urlglory Joe Mays
21 8:00 PM Milwaukee Beer Drinkers kev780 Odalis Perez
22 8:30 PM NY Pinstripes 98 teveritt Jeff Zimmerman
23 9:00 PM Minnesota McGraws mw100 (viason) JD Drew
24 9:30 PM St Louis Arch Enemy OPEN Scott Williamson

  and our draft that is now underway.

Quote post by gonoles777 on 7/27/2013 9:39:00 AM:
**** 1999 12 Team League Draft ****
Round 1 - Tuesday - July 30
All Times WIS Time (EDST)

1. St. Louis (specsman)                                        Tim Hudson (P)
2. Texas (ooooohdoggie)                                      11:00 - Noon
3. San Diego (ff09)                                                  Noon - 1:00 PM
4. Pittsburgh (Tammmyk)                                     1:00 - 2:00
5. Chicago (kasprowitz)                                        2:00 - 3:00
6. Philadelphia (yatagon)                                      3:00 - 4:00
7. Bay City (coled)                                                   4:00 - 5:00
8. Boston (WavelandGuy)                                     5:00 - 6:00
9. Cincinnati (stroh23)                                          6:00 - 7:00
10. LA (gwhouse)                                                   7:00 - 8:00
11. Denver (dn3524)                                              8:00 - 9:00
12. Baltimore (gonoles777)                                 9:00 - 10:00
Round 2 - Wednesday - July 31
All Times WIS Time (EDST)

13. St. Louis (specsman)                                        10:00 - 11:00 AM
14. Texas (ooooohdoggie)                                      11:00 - Noon
15. San Diego (ff09)                                                  Noon - 1:00 PM
16. Pittsburgh (Tammmyk)                                     1:00 - 2:00
17. Chicago (kasprowitz)                                        2:00 - 3:00
18. Philadelphia (yatagon)                                      3:00 - 4:00
19. Bay City (coled)                                                   4:00 - 5:00 (LAST PICK)
20. Boston (WavelandGuy)                                     5:00 - 6:00
21. Cincinnati (stroh23)                                          6:00 - 7:00
22. LA (gwhouse)                                                   7:00 - 8:00
23. Denver (dn3524)                                              8:00 - 9:00
24. Baltimore (gonoles777)                                 9:00 - 10:00






7/30/2013 11:43 PM
If I had a No. 1 pick, I would consider a premier SS or 2B who was capable of playing 158-162 games over a premier SP chiefly because they would be involved in affecting the outcome of significantly more plays -- offensively and defensively -- than a starting pitcher.

There is a catch, of course: There must be enough quality SP prospects available to be sure that I wouldn't get stuck with a batting-practice rotation after using that pick for SS or 2B.

8/1/2013 12:06 AM
Posted by doubletruck on 7/30/2013 11:43:00 PM (view original):
If I had a No. 1 pick, I would consider a premier SS or 2B who was capable of playing 158-162 games over a premier SP chiefly because they would be involved in affecting the outcome of significantly more plays -- offensively and defensively -- than a starting pitcher.

There is a catch, of course: There must be enough quality SP prospects available to be sure that I wouldn't get stuck with a batting-practice rotation after using that pick for SS or 2B.

No such player really exists in the '99 draft. Adam Kennedy is the best middle infielder on the board, and I have no plans to take him at number 5 (But then, I already have a couple of 2Bs that will work for a couple more years.)
8/1/2013 2:19 PM
Heading into the '00's where consistent solid pitching is hard to come by, Hudson is an easy pick.  There are plenty of one or two season offensive wonders kicking around that you draft later on.

I don't always go with a pitcher over a position player, it depends on the era and the available players... sometimes Rickey Henderson or Ozzie Smith or Mike Schmidt is a better pick... but good starting pitching is a valuable commodity, and at the very least will have decent trade value going forward.
8/1/2013 6:15 PM
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have Bonds than Maddux...
8/4/2013 3:36 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 8/1/2013 6:15:00 PM (view original):
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have Bonds than Maddux...
Ok....you're crazy.

I'm not suggesting taking Bonds over Maddux is crazy, I just wanted to play along.
11/22/2013 3:15 PM
I had to chime in now that Berkman has some experience...he is crushing the ball for my Arrlington Assault team in the Steriod/Deadball progressive (Dual season, now in 1922/2002)
 
His 2001 season:

146 Runs, 227 hits, 60 Doubles, 9 Triples, 38 Hr's (100+ ExtraBH), 151 RBI's, 103 BB's, .341/.434/.630 1.064 OPS 7 errors and 8 good plays in LF

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