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malone9975
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Posted by masterdebate on 8/2/2013 2:51:00 AM (view original):
Taking this in order:

1. Feel free to cut as many guys as you like. Cut all ten if you so desire. It won't hurt my feelings. Really.
2. There will be a draft before the league starts to fill up rosters.
3. A big part of pre constructed rosters was randomness. That you would have no idea who you are starting with on your team. Just like you have no idea who your two mandatory free agents will be each season. A full draft doesn't seem to fit the "random" idea. Trust me, it would have been far simpler to institute a full draft, but I had fun assembling these rosters.
4. I read a number of forums regarding team construction, and like MLB, there seems to be a lot of the same guys being used on every team in open leagues. Obviously being a progressive, more players have to be used, I did the best I could with the resources at my disposal to create rosters. (See above for reasoning.)
5. For obvious reasons I didn't have time to check the usage pct of every single player's every single season. I did my best to represent star players from 60 plus years of basketball history. If, for example, AI isn't good, feel free to cut him and replace him with someone else.
6. The primary purpose of this league is to have fun with all the randomness. If you like a massively controlled franchise where you know how all the nuts and bolts are going to work each year, this league probably isn't for you. That said, the MLB version is starting season 22. About half of us have been in it from the beginning.
The problem I don't think you realize is a lack of equity in the teams.  If you look at the teams logain and shawbigred and the OMG squad you gave all3, you will see teams that are fairly loaded.  When you compare that to my team I see a team (and I understand it is random and I signed up for it) I got a team that doesn't have a fart of a chance of contending for a playoff spot, let alone a championship.  My team is easily one of the worst.  I am LOADED with what is called SIM POISON.  I have one real point guard and no one in their right mind would ever play him because he is an awful shooter with too much usage.  Let's look at my team with some notes:

Sidney Moncrief - Good a top 125 player
Drazen Petrovic - Only Scores
Dominique Wilkins - Borderline Poison - scores a lot, but takes too many shots to do it, rebounds ok but not well enough.
Tim Duncan - Only elite player here
Dan Issel - Borderline Poison
Baron Davis - SIM POISON
World B. Free - Borderline Poison
Dan Majerle - Decent if you get lucky enough to use the couple of ok seasons he has
Blake Griffin- Fouls too much, can't hit FT's, can't guard a brown paper bag...scoring and rebounding are pretty good
Tree Rollins - Good couple of seasons, but at that he is a foul monster

We had a league over a year ago that blacklisted 250 top players, and three of my players would have been banned in that league, all the others are available.

So here is my issue...where am I going to get to draft?  If my team, which is one of the worst, gets put in random.org and I am drafting toward the back of the draft I am going to be ****** after getting this pile of crap.  I am trying to figure out how Magic, Pierce, Wade, Mourning, and Boozer get on one squad together then KJ, Jordan, Durant, and Ming get on another then you see Bird, Grant, Manu, and Reed and there is the ULTIMATE COUP DE GRACE  F'n Wilt with rebounding MONSTER Ben Wallace plus Nance, Reggie Miller, and Mark Jackson...that team has 65 wins written all over it because that WILL be the starting lineup for that squad BTW three of those guys were drafted first round in our ongoing 52 mil draft league.  My team only has three guys on it picked in that league TOTAL.  I didn't even mention the LeBron, Jesus Shuttlesworth, Buck Williams, Lacey, Vince, and Iguodala squad.  You put those elite players together, and I got a diamond, a couple of gold flecks, all in a giant pile of crap.  I certainly deserve 2 or 3 picks in the top 15, and definitely one of those in the top 3.

I love the unknown, but give guys like me a chance in this league.  I will join up with a dead squad, but I need to feel like I have a chance to compete.  Right now the squad I have would lose at least 55 games, but likely into the deep 60's.  
8/2/2013 8:53 AM (edited)
slymonium
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Good point Malone makes about initial equity. How will the initial draft order be determined? Malone and I will be floating down **** creek together straight to the cellar faster than Wilt can get his hands on a $2 whore whilst likely getting shafted in the initial draft as well.

How do you keep a straight face and even give a team like any of the ones mentioned above a first or second round pick on top of the gifts they've already been given? Here's 65 wins and a first round pick. Enjoy. If we're holding a draft anyway, I'd prefer to start it from the ground. Regardless, it will be fun to see Nash and Baylor on the same squad together (up until I cut Baylor before the initial draft). At least I didn't get the Cousy team. We'd be having a 12 round draft just for me.
8/2/2013 9:32 AM
slymonium
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Also, how does Josh Smith end up on my roster AND on logains roster??
8/2/2013 9:36 AM
logain
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Want to fight over who gives up Josh? I will give him up if you want him.. just not sure you do..
8/2/2013 9:53 AM
masterdebate
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Logain should have Joe Smith, excel must have changed it. I apologize.

Keep in mind that the Jordan team could lose both Jordan and Durant to free agency....

I would be open to having a draft, lets have a vote via sitemail that will be open for 48 hours, since I did make two roster mistakes. Good thing I had three people proof read them. ;(

I have a 13 hour shift today due to a no-call, no-show. I will be largely AFK today.



8/2/2013 10:53 AM
malone9975
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Elgin Baylor is wildly inefficient. He plays solid d and rebounds and passes well but he has very high usage. When you look at Baylor you will find him to have the top usage with a terrible efg% which means your worst quality shooter will take the most shots.

To put it into perspective. My team has Manny Ramirez, and a collection of Dickie Thons and Dave Kingmans.
8/2/2013 10:56 AM
slymonium
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Lol Malone
8/2/2013 11:06 AM
all3
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I understand everyone's input, but unless I'm mistaken, this is going to be a League where rosters are incredibly fluid.  I may get a 505 minute Wilt for season 1, then lose him to FA after the season.  What if I get that Wilt, the 578 minute Wallace, a bad Nance, and a low-minute Jackson?  I'm going to need to try to fill all my PG and rebounding needs through the Draft.  The Draft and trades will be incredibly important to everyone's success every season - not as much as the luck of the random season, but isn't that the allure?  Can you draft, trade and manage good enough to overcome bad luck?  Am, I wrong?
8/2/2013 11:19 AM
jholme44
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I'm going to insert a bit of a different voice into this discussion. I do have some experience with sim basketball, so I understand at least in part the inequity you guys are describing, but I also know that if we started a draft from scratch I would be blown out of the water by those of you with far more experience than I have. I suppose that's natural and I don't mind manning a loser while I learn the ropes, but it's a lot easier for me to jump in the waters of sim basketball with a team already mostly made up. I don't even know if I know enough players to be able to fill out the second half of a draft board.

We could do a full draft, but just know that if we did we'd likely wind up with far greater imbalance than we currently have. The experienced teams among the top might be pretty equal, but those of us still learning the ropes would wind up with a bunch of well known players that we don't realize are sim-poison yet.

I'm ok either way. This league in baseball is easily the highlight of my whatifsports career and I'm eager to expand that to include basketball now too, but just know that the transition will be smoother and less intimidating if I don't have to draft an entire team against the big boys right off the bat.

8/2/2013 11:29 AM
logain
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I really dont want to go through a month ling draft anyway.. regardless of what team I have
8/2/2013 11:43 AM
slymonium
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I understand that side of the coin as well jholme.  You make a fair argument for not holding a draft.  Logain- the initial draft is still going to take a while because many of us will be trimming our rosters down considerably.

And all3- I could get the best seasons for most my guys and you could get the worst for most of yours and you would still crush me.  Switch me squads and see where your argument lands.

8/2/2013 11:50 AM
Malfunction
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All3 hit the concept on the head. The allure is you don't know what seasons you get or who you lose. Trades and drafts and trades of draft picks for players and even the ir draft are just as important as your starting 5. Not knowing if you get Jordan in his prime or when he played baseball is all in the strategy.

I play urapp baseball with cheno masterD and jholme and every year the playoffs are wide open. Give it a couple seasons and the allure will be like playing the lottery.

That being said masterD will hold a vote via sitemail. It will be anonymous. But I would second jholme's comments. It seems to me that the bball sim owners already have a distinct advantage that would make a draft considerably more unbalanced.

And an FYI... masterD and I are friends IRL so if you see me post answers to questions its cuz I have online access 24/7.

Mal
8/2/2013 12:08 PM (edited)
slymonium
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Sounds good.  The real challenge to this league:  getting it to fill.  Not many owners around these days playing themes.
8/2/2013 12:02 PM
Malfunction
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@Malone: IF I were to offer you a 2nd for say Wilkins... would you accept it?
Here's why I ask. If you say yes then Wilkins is worth a second round draft pick. If no then he's worth more to you being on your team. If you cut him then he's worth no better than a 3rd to you in the upcoming draft. Same goes for Baylor majerle or anyone else on your team.

Not saying you have Baylor on your team. Just using it as an example.

That's where playing for picks comes into the strategy.
8/2/2013 12:25 PM
slymonium
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I would take it in a flash.  I'd rather have the opportunity to pick up a guy I want with value for the minutes he'll play vs a guy who just eats up minutes.  Bang for my buck.
8/2/2013 12:35 PM
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