All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Does no one else see the problem here?
8/19/2013 1:23 PM
Invariably, statistically, I'm not alone. most people who leave come back once at the most, and when they do it is for a short time to "give it a shot" to see if its gotten better. GD is a great concept, but 2.0 is too bland from an options perspective and 1.0 was too predictable and too easy for the top teams to stay on the top and lower ranked teams always stayed on the bottom. Between the scarcity of updates on the beta, and the many divergent opinions on where 3.0 goes it is hard for me to say that this game will survive. WIS has never addressed this question where I have viewed it. Never said why they treat HBD differently. This is WIS's last shot. I have spent my last dollar here unless the game gets better. 
8/19/2013 1:31 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
Since you won't believe me here is the proof:

http://www.whatifsports.com/gd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=49533

Notice seasons 47-61 a span of 15 seasons how the team won only 6 games total. Notice season 64 my 3rd a 14 win CC season. Again, all players that I inherited were crap AC signings. The team rating was as I recall in the mid 200's somewhere.

8/19/2013 1:37 PM
Is notable that this was a significantly long time after the period of time I tried to play. I can't really see your recruits or how you got them either, because I couldn't even see players good enough to get that record, much less be able to get them. Every year I got about half my class recruited by me. on the other hand, even before I got some help on 2.0. so maybe it is possible, it certainly didn't happen often. Its not like I just don't get "how GD works" I do now, more then I did then and likely I would know what teams to avoid now as opposed to then I wanted so badly to start playing what looked like an entertaining game that I just took the team I could get (because worlds filled up back then)  then got destroyed because of the vision I had and the prestige difference I had. Is it your belief, Jibe, that a newbie who has never played this game before can step in and win a CC in season 3? In the end, thats the question that is important. 
8/19/2013 1:37 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:23:00 PM (view original):
Invariably, statistically, I'm not alone. most people who leave come back once at the most, and when they do it is for a short time to "give it a shot" to see if its gotten better. GD is a great concept, but 2.0 is too bland from an options perspective and 1.0 was too predictable and too easy for the top teams to stay on the top and lower ranked teams always stayed on the bottom. Between the scarcity of updates on the beta, and the many divergent opinions on where 3.0 goes it is hard for me to say that this game will survive. WIS has never addressed this question where I have viewed it. Never said why they treat HBD differently. This is WIS's last shot. I have spent my last dollar here unless the game gets better. 
GD is on its way to dead. It will go the way of Grey Dog software and not see an update to the game in 6 years.

I too am on my way out, I am down to one team and 97% certain that it will be dropped after next season runs. Unless I was to win an NC and reap a free season. The last 3 months with this Beta test has been a bad joke. You have had coaches telling WIS this isn't working an ZERO feedback almost. The new developer is tbh an even bigger joke than the game itself. Now it appears as though any momentum the testers had is gone.

8/19/2013 1:38 PM
And again, its primarily for a game balance proposition. If these teams did not exist we would have more parity and less reasons to nerf attributes to "make things easier". Why is it bad for GD but good for HBD and simleague games? 
8/19/2013 1:44 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:37:00 PM (view original):
Is notable that this was a significantly long time after the period of time I tried to play. I can't really see your recruits or how you got them either, because I couldn't even see players good enough to get that record, much less be able to get them. Every year I got about half my class recruited by me. on the other hand, even before I got some help on 2.0. so maybe it is possible, it certainly didn't happen often. Its not like I just don't get "how GD works" I do now, more then I did then and likely I would know what teams to avoid now as opposed to then I wanted so badly to start playing what looked like an entertaining game that I just took the team I could get (because worlds filled up back then)  then got destroyed because of the vision I had and the prestige difference I had. Is it your belief, Jibe, that a newbie who has never played this game before can step in and win a CC in season 3? In the end, thats the question that is important. 
The players I inherited were awful. I signed all high potential recruits largely in my 360 range who had at least a decent WE. This and a halfway respectable GP and it was and is possible to do this at least a majority of the time.

As for a newb winning a CC in season 3? Under 1.0 in D3 worlds that were 2/3 full with some decent vets playing, no not likely. Under 2.0 I've seen more than 1 newb step in and win CC's and even play for NC's in 4 seasons or less.

8/19/2013 1:50 PM
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:37:00 PM (view original):
Is notable that this was a significantly long time after the period of time I tried to play. I can't really see your recruits or how you got them either, because I couldn't even see players good enough to get that record, much less be able to get them. Every year I got about half my class recruited by me. on the other hand, even before I got some help on 2.0. so maybe it is possible, it certainly didn't happen often. Its not like I just don't get "how GD works" I do now, more then I did then and likely I would know what teams to avoid now as opposed to then I wanted so badly to start playing what looked like an entertaining game that I just took the team I could get (because worlds filled up back then)  then got destroyed because of the vision I had and the prestige difference I had. Is it your belief, Jibe, that a newbie who has never played this game before can step in and win a CC in season 3? In the end, thats the question that is important. 
The players I inherited were awful. I signed all high potential recruits largely in my 360 range who had at least a decent WE. This and a halfway respectable GP and it was and is possible to do this at least a majority of the time.

As for a newb winning a CC in season 3? Under 1.0 in D3 worlds that were 2/3 full with some decent vets playing, no not likely. Under 2.0 I've seen more than 1 newb step in and win CC's and even play for NC's in 4 seasons or less.

Which is why I've stayed in 2.0 longer then I stayed in 1.0. I wasn't able to get high potential recruits. Those were the ones that I lost after putting too much money into them. When I played DIII was almost 100% full nearly every season. Recruiting was significantly different, tho I couldn't tell you how it was different. It just seemed to be much easier for a high prestige team to take players who were far away from them compared to now where if you get in a battle with someone that is within 100 miles of a recruit the prestige difference often doesnt matter. 
8/19/2013 1:51 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:38:00 PM (view original):
And again, its primarily for a game balance proposition. If these teams did not exist we would have more parity and less reasons to nerf attributes to "make things easier". Why is it bad for GD but good for HBD and simleague games? 
HBD with the standard of all teams have to be full in order to roll need to have the teams at least presume to be decent. A world that has 4-5 teams that are neglected for season after season are much harder to fill. The more balanced and competitive that world is the more appealing it is. Every one of my long term HBD teams have been rebuilds. I have a strategy of suffering for about 4 seasons with losing before I turn up the speed. I do not know if you can turn around a really bad HBD team in 2-3 seasons. I'm assuming you can if you don't inherit a slug of bad contracts. But I have not tried a quick approach.
8/19/2013 1:54 PM (edited)
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
You obviously weren't paying attention.  You probably never understood how to build a team.  It had nothing to do with your starting roster or vision.  In reality, starting with a terrible roster gave you an enormous advantage when recruiting the first two seasons, and sometimes even in the third season.  It still does in 2.0 and 3.0.  I know several former (maybe still current) coaches who could routinely get teams to a CC in the third season, and it wouldn't matter what the team looked like when they took over.  It had to do with recruiting, gameplanning and scheduling.  Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other coaches didn't do it.  And it wasn't even a one time thing, this happened with consistently.
8/19/2013 1:55 PM
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
You obviously weren't paying attention.  You probably never understood how to build a team.  It had nothing to do with your starting roster or vision.  In reality, starting with a terrible roster gave you an enormous advantage when recruiting the first two seasons, and sometimes even in the third season.  It still does in 2.0 and 3.0.  I know several former (maybe still current) coaches who could routinely get teams to a CC in the third season, and it wouldn't matter what the team looked like when they took over.  It had to do with recruiting, gameplanning and scheduling.  Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other coaches didn't do it.  And it wasn't even a one time thing, this happened with consistently.
Then why am I all of a sudden not clueless anymore? I got some tips that took me from making a winning team to making playoff contending teams, but I get football. What changed? How does starting with a terrible roster give you an enormous advantage? You have more holes, the same amount of money, less prestige and less vision then other coaches. 
8/19/2013 1:56 PM
The only advantage I would see would be that you could start freshmen and that would make them better faster, but that also was different back then and not nearly as drastic a difference as it is now. 
8/19/2013 2:02 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:37:00 PM (view original):
Is notable that this was a significantly long time after the period of time I tried to play. I can't really see your recruits or how you got them either, because I couldn't even see players good enough to get that record, much less be able to get them. Every year I got about half my class recruited by me. on the other hand, even before I got some help on 2.0. so maybe it is possible, it certainly didn't happen often. Its not like I just don't get "how GD works" I do now, more then I did then and likely I would know what teams to avoid now as opposed to then I wanted so badly to start playing what looked like an entertaining game that I just took the team I could get (because worlds filled up back then)  then got destroyed because of the vision I had and the prestige difference I had. Is it your belief, Jibe, that a newbie who has never played this game before can step in and win a CC in season 3? In the end, thats the question that is important. 
The players I inherited were awful. I signed all high potential recruits largely in my 360 range who had at least a decent WE. This and a halfway respectable GP and it was and is possible to do this at least a majority of the time.

As for a newb winning a CC in season 3? Under 1.0 in D3 worlds that were 2/3 full with some decent vets playing, no not likely. Under 2.0 I've seen more than 1 newb step in and win CC's and even play for NC's in 4 seasons or less.

Which is why I've stayed in 2.0 longer then I stayed in 1.0. I wasn't able to get high potential recruits. Those were the ones that I lost after putting too much money into them. When I played DIII was almost 100% full nearly every season. Recruiting was significantly different, tho I couldn't tell you how it was different. It just seemed to be much easier for a high prestige team to take players who were far away from them compared to now where if you get in a battle with someone that is within 100 miles of a recruit the prestige difference often doesnt matter. 
But high potential recruits are a dime a dozen. Sure you have high potential guys with better ratings than others. You have some high potential players that aren't worth dragging home of course. At Baldwin-Wallace I kept my battles against humans down to 1 or 2 a season. But I also had 25-30 high potential players in line for 10- 15  openings. I scouted, scouted and scouted some more. I would scout the sim recruits as well. I would usually take 3-4 high potential guys from them a season.

With the vision I started with I did not even see the recruits the better teams got to see. They saw d2 recruits. I will agree that it was very hard to take some of the juggernauts off of the throne. That Grove City team I mentioned was good enough to compete at D2 easily.

8/19/2013 2:02 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
You obviously weren't paying attention.  You probably never understood how to build a team.  It had nothing to do with your starting roster or vision.  In reality, starting with a terrible roster gave you an enormous advantage when recruiting the first two seasons, and sometimes even in the third season.  It still does in 2.0 and 3.0.  I know several former (maybe still current) coaches who could routinely get teams to a CC in the third season, and it wouldn't matter what the team looked like when they took over.  It had to do with recruiting, gameplanning and scheduling.  Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other coaches didn't do it.  And it wasn't even a one time thing, this happened with consistently.
Then why am I all of a sudden not clueless anymore? I got some tips that took me from making a winning team to making playoff contending teams, but I get football. What changed? How does starting with a terrible roster give you an enormous advantage? You have more holes, the same amount of money, less prestige and less vision then other coaches. 
You're still clueless.  There's just very little competition now and it's easier to win games you shouldn't win from a strictly talent perspective.  As talent has been devalued, it makes bad teams better and good teams worse, everyone has moved closer to the center.

Starting with a terrible roster gives you an enormous recruiting advantage.  The fact that you don't know why is probably why you struggle to (re)build teams.  Prestige and vision were and are the two biggest straw men for struggling coaches.
8/19/2013 2:11 PM
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
You obviously weren't paying attention.  You probably never understood how to build a team.  It had nothing to do with your starting roster or vision.  In reality, starting with a terrible roster gave you an enormous advantage when recruiting the first two seasons, and sometimes even in the third season.  It still does in 2.0 and 3.0.  I know several former (maybe still current) coaches who could routinely get teams to a CC in the third season, and it wouldn't matter what the team looked like when they took over.  It had to do with recruiting, gameplanning and scheduling.  Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other coaches didn't do it.  And it wasn't even a one time thing, this happened with consistently.
Then why am I all of a sudden not clueless anymore? I got some tips that took me from making a winning team to making playoff contending teams, but I get football. What changed? How does starting with a terrible roster give you an enormous advantage? You have more holes, the same amount of money, less prestige and less vision then other coaches. 
You're still clueless.  There's just very little competition now and it's easier to win games you shouldn't win from a strictly talent perspective.  As talent has been devalued, it makes bad teams better and good teams worse, everyone has moved closer to the center.

Starting with a terrible roster gives you an enormous recruiting advantage.  The fact that you don't know why is probably why you struggle to (re)build teams.  Prestige and vision were and are the two biggest straw men for struggling coaches.
I take it you put no stock in GUESS ratings then? Because I've taken a team from 200+ to 18. A team that went 11-28 to a team that has been ranked every year and gone to the playoffs every year going as far as the semi-final. The only way a terrible roster gives you any advantage is that you can start the freshmen. Promising a start does not amount to much in actual effort, so the only advantage is in the actual growth of the recruits you get. I had that advantage back when I played. It didn't help me recruit the players necessary to compete. I was beaten out for those recruits by others. 
8/19/2013 2:12 PM
And how many times during 1.0 did we see bad coaches take over good programs and within 3 seasons use up most of the resources and leave the team in shambles? Many, many times. Even though they inherited great players and great vision and great prestige.
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