All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Does no one else see the problem here?
8/19/2013 2:13 PM
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 1:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:37:00 PM (view original):
Is notable that this was a significantly long time after the period of time I tried to play. I can't really see your recruits or how you got them either, because I couldn't even see players good enough to get that record, much less be able to get them. Every year I got about half my class recruited by me. on the other hand, even before I got some help on 2.0. so maybe it is possible, it certainly didn't happen often. Its not like I just don't get "how GD works" I do now, more then I did then and likely I would know what teams to avoid now as opposed to then I wanted so badly to start playing what looked like an entertaining game that I just took the team I could get (because worlds filled up back then)  then got destroyed because of the vision I had and the prestige difference I had. Is it your belief, Jibe, that a newbie who has never played this game before can step in and win a CC in season 3? In the end, thats the question that is important. 
The players I inherited were awful. I signed all high potential recruits largely in my 360 range who had at least a decent WE. This and a halfway respectable GP and it was and is possible to do this at least a majority of the time.

As for a newb winning a CC in season 3? Under 1.0 in D3 worlds that were 2/3 full with some decent vets playing, no not likely. Under 2.0 I've seen more than 1 newb step in and win CC's and even play for NC's in 4 seasons or less.

Which is why I've stayed in 2.0 longer then I stayed in 1.0. I wasn't able to get high potential recruits. Those were the ones that I lost after putting too much money into them. When I played DIII was almost 100% full nearly every season. Recruiting was significantly different, tho I couldn't tell you how it was different. It just seemed to be much easier for a high prestige team to take players who were far away from them compared to now where if you get in a battle with someone that is within 100 miles of a recruit the prestige difference often doesnt matter. 
But high potential recruits are a dime a dozen. Sure you have high potential guys with better ratings than others. You have some high potential players that aren't worth dragging home of course. At Baldwin-Wallace I kept my battles against humans down to 1 or 2 a season. But I also had 25-30 high potential players in line for 10- 15  openings. I scouted, scouted and scouted some more. I would scout the sim recruits as well. I would usually take 3-4 high potential guys from them a season.

With the vision I started with I did not even see the recruits the better teams got to see. They saw d2 recruits. I will agree that it was very hard to take some of the juggernauts off of the throne. That Grove City team I mentioned was good enough to compete at D2 easily.

Then there is your answer for the difference then. i didn't have that many sims to steal from at the time I first tried playing the game. If you can only battle 1-2 humans a season and the league is full, then it changes the dynamic substantially. 
8/19/2013 2:16 PM
And again, we are sitting here arguing the merits of my minor argument and not my primary argument. That abandoned teams are bad for the health of the overall league because of its effects on attracting new coaches and its effects on skewering any kind of immersion in the game. Immersion is based, at least to me, on the league replicating a realistic outcome as a whole. The guys on this team I brought up would never play even DIII football. they'd get cut. 
8/19/2013 2:23 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 2:16:00 PM (view original):
And again, we are sitting here arguing the merits of my minor argument and not my primary argument. That abandoned teams are bad for the health of the overall league because of its effects on attracting new coaches and its effects on skewering any kind of immersion in the game. Immersion is based, at least to me, on the league replicating a realistic outcome as a whole. The guys on this team I brought up would never play even DIII football. they'd get cut. 
But its Beta and I did discuss how I feel about it.

As for the health of the Beta worlds and attracting new coaches the problem with that is the developer and WIS doesn't care enough about it to nurture either. I'm not going to play a meaningless Beta when it doen't revolve around mutual correspondence between developer and tester. Whats the point? Because its free? Someone could give me a plate of rottin lutefisk with stinky limburger on the side, doesn't mean I want to eat it.

8/19/2013 2:27 PM
I don't particularly care about the health of the beta worlds. They will cease to exist eventually. I don't pay for them. I enjoy it enough to play it for free. This particular issue for me is more about the immersion factor. It is, in my reasoning for playing, the single most important thing to playing any game. 
8/19/2013 2:28 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 2:02:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 1:54:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
You obviously weren't paying attention.  You probably never understood how to build a team.  It had nothing to do with your starting roster or vision.  In reality, starting with a terrible roster gave you an enormous advantage when recruiting the first two seasons, and sometimes even in the third season.  It still does in 2.0 and 3.0.  I know several former (maybe still current) coaches who could routinely get teams to a CC in the third season, and it wouldn't matter what the team looked like when they took over.  It had to do with recruiting, gameplanning and scheduling.  Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean other coaches didn't do it.  And it wasn't even a one time thing, this happened with consistently.
Then why am I all of a sudden not clueless anymore? I got some tips that took me from making a winning team to making playoff contending teams, but I get football. What changed? How does starting with a terrible roster give you an enormous advantage? You have more holes, the same amount of money, less prestige and less vision then other coaches. 
You're still clueless.  There's just very little competition now and it's easier to win games you shouldn't win from a strictly talent perspective.  As talent has been devalued, it makes bad teams better and good teams worse, everyone has moved closer to the center.

Starting with a terrible roster gives you an enormous recruiting advantage.  The fact that you don't know why is probably why you struggle to (re)build teams.  Prestige and vision were and are the two biggest straw men for struggling coaches.
I take it you put no stock in GUESS ratings then? Because I've taken a team from 200+ to 18. A team that went 11-28 to a team that has been ranked every year and gone to the playoffs every year going as far as the semi-final. The only way a terrible roster gives you any advantage is that you can start the freshmen. Promising a start does not amount to much in actual effort, so the only advantage is in the actual growth of the recruits you get. I had that advantage back when I played. It didn't help me recruit the players necessary to compete. I was beaten out for those recruits by others. 
That you can't get beyond 18 tells me you don't know how to build a team or recruit at an elite level, or what used to be an elite level before everyone left.  

It still doesn't change the fact that going from a terrible team to winning a CC in season 3 has been done consistently by some coaches.  
8/19/2013 2:31 PM
I've seen one example, from 30 seasons after when I played. The team also went straight back to being terrible soon afterward. And, again, its not the freaking point. 
8/19/2013 2:35 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
I've seen one example, from 30 seasons after when I played. The team also went straight back to being terrible soon afterward. And, again, its not the freaking point. 
Form the coaches I know personally, look at the histories of nelsonba25, gt_deuce, dravz and polabonez.  If you actually do some research, you'll find even more.  It has been done before and done consistently by coaches who know what they're doing.
8/19/2013 3:29 PM
Pointless thread - blah, blah - all to be determined on v 3.0 - currently on life support and presumed braindead.
8/19/2013 3:49 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
I've seen one example, from 30 seasons after when I played. The team also went straight back to being terrible soon afterward. And, again, its not the freaking point. 
Yes, the "freaking point" is that one abandoned team destroys the integrity of the entire game for you.

For most of the rest of us, there are so many other things that need to be addressed first, what to do about an abandoned team is barely a priority.
8/19/2013 3:50 PM
Posted by bhazlewood on 8/19/2013 3:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 2:31:00 PM (view original):
I've seen one example, from 30 seasons after when I played. The team also went straight back to being terrible soon afterward. And, again, its not the freaking point. 
Yes, the "freaking point" is that one abandoned team destroys the integrity of the entire game for you.

For most of the rest of us, there are so many other things that need to be addressed first, what to do about an abandoned team is barely a priority.
Its really, from an ease of fix standpoint, one of the easiest things to deal with. Not like we are fixing anything so far. maybe baby steps are needed for them to get the confidence that they can fix it I have no idea. I'm just tired of nothing being done and I'm getting anxious with my team winding down with no progress. Dealing with this wouldn't be enough, but it'd be something. 
8/19/2013 3:55 PM
Sure, it's a simple fix - just have all teams start with default practice plans, instead of "no practice" plans.

It's just not as big a deal to most of us as it is to you.

8/19/2013 4:00 PM
And fixing it would do nothing to hurt or slow down the process. Particularly when nothing is being done and no one is knowing why. If it doesn't get looked at in beta, it won't change in the pay worlds either. 
8/19/2013 9:41 PM
I agree it isn't a big deal at all, but Noah has a point.  Anytime something outside the engine is brought up that would be a relatively easy fix, we are told it isn't a priority right now.  It is almost like we are making excuses for Wis.  "they are too busy to fix that".  "Don't distract them from the main task" "that isn't as important as XYZ".  Why can't they offer a couple of internships to some college kids to work under the developer to get all of this done or at the very least, address the main issues in a more timely fashion so the small ones aren't viewed as a distraction?  

As far as this specific issue, I like the idea of the default practice plan that Bhazlewood suggested.   I am not sure this creates as big an issue as Noah seems to think, but if fixing it is fast and easy, I don't see why it should be ignored.  Of course, I would prefer they get the TE back from the negative zone first.   I have a team in my conference who has been ranked in the bottom 3 for like 5 years running in Argenteno.  The team is just as bad, if not worse, than the one Noah linked.  It has not really impacted me in any way, and makes for a comical game once per year,            
of 3
All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Does no one else see the problem here?

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.