All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty Beta > Does no one else see the problem here?
8/18/2013 11:45 PM
http://www.whatifsports.com/gdbeta/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=574


I
 do, actually, realize what caused this problem. I do, actually, realize there is no consensus of there being a problem here. I am trying to grasp why that consensus does not exist here. For instance, I understand that a large part of this problem is that the person who took over this team never set up his practice schedule. This is not about "nerfing" the game or making it "easier" this is about the balance of the game. A team like this throws the balance of the game completely off. I don't pretend to have the answer at this point, but this is a problem. The problem is not that I beat this team 150-0 every time. I should beat this team by that much. It is THAT bad. The problem is that a game that someone must pay for would have no way of preserving the integrity of the game. Cheating whoever gets randomly scheduled against this team getting a serious shot to its playoff hopes. 
 
8/19/2013 8:16 AM
Another example of someone that wanted to test, but gave up. Heck we have schools in the real worlds that r similar to that. Just an absent coach.
8/19/2013 11:15 AM
People have been complaining about abandoned teams ever since I stated playing this game, way back when.  The response from WIS has always been that a person is free to do with their team what they will (within some reason - which is why there is a cap on the number of players that can be cut and the number of position switches per season) since they've already paid for the seaons (you can't have a car company go after an owner who's paid for their car in full simply because they've neglected it).

As for scheduling, if the team is not in your conference, make sure you fill your OOC games so that the possibility of having that team on your schedule is eliminated.  If the team is in your conference, make your OOC games a bit tougher to compensate for any weak teams you play on a regular basis.

FYI: While margin of victory is factored in to your WIS ranking, you max out any benefit at 21 points (a 150 - 0 counts the same as a 21 - 0 victory).  Also note, that there's no difference between a team that loses all of its games by 21 point or more and is being actively coached, and a team that loses all of its games by 21 points or more and has been abandoned.
8/19/2013 11:15 AM
He didn't give up. He never started if he had, he would have at least pushed on the "recommended practice time" button. Yes, I realize there are schools in real worlds like that. It is just an absent coach. There should be safeguards against things getting this out of hand. Its pathetic. 
8/19/2013 11:19 AM
The problem is that this is one of the most hypocritical posts in the Beta forums.

Scores are unrealistic.  You should never score 100 in a game.  I don't care how bad the other team is, it's unrealistic.  Scores should always be realistic.  Oh, I beat a team by 100+ points.  I should beat this team by that much.  
8/19/2013 11:22 AM
Posted by slid64er on 8/19/2013 11:19:00 AM (view original):
The problem is that this is one of the most hypocritical posts in the Beta forums.

Scores are unrealistic.  You should never score 100 in a game.  I don't care how bad the other team is, it's unrealistic.  Scores should always be realistic.  Oh, I beat a team by 100+ points.  I should beat this team by that much.  
except this is not. I should not be able to score 100 in a game. This team should not exist. This team should not be this bad. There is no reason for it. It is the only game on WIS that allows this to go on for multiple seasons. The only game on WIS that has no safeguards in place for this happening. the reason I shouldn't win by 100+ points is THIS TEAM SHOULD NOT EXIST 
8/19/2013 11:25 AM
Posted by mgm0461 on 8/19/2013 11:15:00 AM (view original):
People have been complaining about abandoned teams ever since I stated playing this game, way back when.  The response from WIS has always been that a person is free to do with their team what they will (within some reason - which is why there is a cap on the number of players that can be cut and the number of position switches per season) since they've already paid for the seaons (you can't have a car company go after an owner who's paid for their car in full simply because they've neglected it).

As for scheduling, if the team is not in your conference, make sure you fill your OOC games so that the possibility of having that team on your schedule is eliminated.  If the team is in your conference, make your OOC games a bit tougher to compensate for any weak teams you play on a regular basis.

FYI: While margin of victory is factored in to your WIS ranking, you max out any benefit at 21 points (a 150 - 0 counts the same as a 21 - 0 victory).  Also note, that there's no difference between a team that loses all of its games by 21 point or more and is being actively coached, and a team that loses all of its games by 21 points or more and has been abandoned.
Then why does this logic not apply to other games on the site where you can be actively removed from a team for abandoning it? As for scheduling, I'm not talking about myself, I am talking about game balance. 
8/19/2013 11:29 AM
When I was complaining about the scores, what was my other problem with it? It was recruit generation with recruits rated in the teens in position roles. This is so much worse then that. There is no inconsistency or "hypocrisy" in my arguments. they go hand in hand. 
8/19/2013 11:37 AM
This is a beta world and no records even count. So we're going to worry about an abandoned team in a  Beta world now?  Other than one, who cares? WIS doesn't even care about GD....

As far as I know there is also no action taken in HD either. There is little action taken by WIS in any game for incompetence, which is almost worse than abandonment, especially in a game like HBD.

8/19/2013 12:44 PM
In HD when I was active in it a few years ago, you could get enough people together to remove an abandoned team from your conference. I saw it happen twice. HBD does it more directly. The same reason it is done in HBD is why I worry about it in GD. And no, it doesn't really matter in the beta, outside of it giving us one less reliable test to run. Most don't even seem to have a problem with it. I just don't get it. 
8/19/2013 12:59 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 12:44:00 PM (view original):
In HD when I was active in it a few years ago, you could get enough people together to remove an abandoned team from your conference. I saw it happen twice. HBD does it more directly. The same reason it is done in HBD is why I worry about it in GD. And no, it doesn't really matter in the beta, outside of it giving us one less reliable test to run. Most don't even seem to have a problem with it. I just don't get it. 
I personally do not have a problem with it in Beta is b/c you will find these abandoned teams in your regular GD worlds too. So in that sense it becomes like the regular game and should ape the results in the regular game then.

I don't have a problem with it in the regular game either b/c I have taken over 4 of these awful teams as rebuilds and by the time you've won a CC in season 3 of the rebuild it is quite gratifying and one of the funnest aspects of this game.

8/19/2013 1:04 PM
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 12:44:00 PM (view original):
In HD when I was active in it a few years ago, you could get enough people together to remove an abandoned team from your conference. I saw it happen twice. HBD does it more directly. The same reason it is done in HBD is why I worry about it in GD. And no, it doesn't really matter in the beta, outside of it giving us one less reliable test to run. Most don't even seem to have a problem with it. I just don't get it. 
I personally do not have a problem with it in Beta is b/c you will find these abandoned teams in your regular GD worlds too. So in that sense it becomes like the regular game and should ape the results in the regular game then.

I don't have a problem with it in the regular game either b/c I have taken over 4 of these awful teams as rebuilds and by the time you've won a CC in season 3 of the rebuild it is quite gratifying and one of the funnest aspects of this game.

That is possible with 2.0. It wasn't possible with 1.0. At least not by season 3. I played 5 seasons, got better every season, and still had a losing record after spending nearly 50 bucks. We are talking about wanting ratings to be paramount, which is what it was in 1.0. I agree, but if ratings are going to be the end all, and we are going to have 150-0 scoring games (that are no statistically different in rating then a 21-0 game) then there must be steps taken to ensure teams don't get so bad that they cannot be saved. 
8/19/2013 1:11 PM
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 12:44:00 PM (view original):
In HD when I was active in it a few years ago, you could get enough people together to remove an abandoned team from your conference. I saw it happen twice. HBD does it more directly. The same reason it is done in HBD is why I worry about it in GD. And no, it doesn't really matter in the beta, outside of it giving us one less reliable test to run. Most don't even seem to have a problem with it. I just don't get it. 
I personally do not have a problem with it in Beta is b/c you will find these abandoned teams in your regular GD worlds too. So in that sense it becomes like the regular game and should ape the results in the regular game then.

I don't have a problem with it in the regular game either b/c I have taken over 4 of these awful teams as rebuilds and by the time you've won a CC in season 3 of the rebuild it is quite gratifying and one of the funnest aspects of this game.

That is possible with 2.0. It wasn't possible with 1.0. At least not by season 3. I played 5 seasons, got better every season, and still had a losing record after spending nearly 50 bucks. We are talking about wanting ratings to be paramount, which is what it was in 1.0. I agree, but if ratings are going to be the end all, and we are going to have 150-0 scoring games (that are no statistically different in rating then a 21-0 game) then there must be steps taken to ensure teams don't get so bad that they cannot be saved. 
Winning the CC season 3 wasn't possible in 1.0?  You weren't paying attention.
8/19/2013 1:25 PM (edited)
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 1:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jibe on 8/19/2013 12:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 8/19/2013 12:44:00 PM (view original):
In HD when I was active in it a few years ago, you could get enough people together to remove an abandoned team from your conference. I saw it happen twice. HBD does it more directly. The same reason it is done in HBD is why I worry about it in GD. And no, it doesn't really matter in the beta, outside of it giving us one less reliable test to run. Most don't even seem to have a problem with it. I just don't get it. 
I personally do not have a problem with it in Beta is b/c you will find these abandoned teams in your regular GD worlds too. So in that sense it becomes like the regular game and should ape the results in the regular game then.

I don't have a problem with it in the regular game either b/c I have taken over 4 of these awful teams as rebuilds and by the time you've won a CC in season 3 of the rebuild it is quite gratifying and one of the funnest aspects of this game.

That is possible with 2.0. It wasn't possible with 1.0. At least not by season 3. I played 5 seasons, got better every season, and still had a losing record after spending nearly 50 bucks. We are talking about wanting ratings to be paramount, which is what it was in 1.0. I agree, but if ratings are going to be the end all, and we are going to have 150-0 scoring games (that are no statistically different in rating then a 21-0 game) then there must be steps taken to ensure teams don't get so bad that they cannot be saved. 
Wrong. In Rockne under 1.0 I took Baldwin-Wallace of the OAC to a CC in my 3rd season after it had been abandoned for 10 seasons. It had like 6 W's in that time. All players were AC signings and very bad. My 4th season was a disaster. It was the 1st season of 2.0 so I quit when it was over.

Edit: The conference including me had 6 or 7 humans in it so it wasn't like I rolled over a bunch of sims either. Back in 1.0 sim teams were historically weaker than the human ones, unlike now with empty worlds where they have gotten better. I will say that there were cases where you weren't going to take an abandoned team to a CC in 3 seasons. One that quickly comes to mind is nelsonba's old Grove City team in Rockne MIAC. I doubt it could have been done. I took over an abandon in that conference and left after 4 seasons, team improved greatly and was competitive against many teams but was a 3 TD loser against Grove City.

8/19/2013 1:19 PM
With a team that bad? No, it wasn't. I was paying attention. I worked my butt off to get to the record I did. If you had a SimAI team, maybe season 3 was possible , but an abandoned human team? No. It wasn't. Maybe, if reward points were not nerfed by season in the game it would not be as big of a deal to me, but this game if I were to continue, would be a race to DI. I've enjoyed DIII more then any other league, but I have 2 seasons left and I'm getting 20% of the reward points now. So it forces me to go up around season 3 if I want to compete for rewards points significant enough to actually help me keep playing when I go through a dry money spell. If that season counter gets to zero and I'm broke I'm not coming back. 
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