All Forums > SimLeague Football > NFL > Tebow Released
9/10/2013 9:35 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/9/2013 6:32:00 PM (view original):
Actually, he is.  A read/option guy doesn't have to complete 73% of his passes.   He just needs to be able to hit open receivers consistently.   Tebow seems to be a little lacking there but he could fill in for a half or a game without overhauling the entire offense because RGIII, Kap, Newton, etc, etc got dinged. 

Seriously, look at the back-ups in the NFL.   Do you want Derek Anderson behind the wheel?   Mike Glennon?   Tavaris Jackson?  Dominique Davis?   GTFO. 

But, FWIW, I do understand why teams don't want Tebow on their bench.   He has a following.   As I've said, repeatedly, your #1 has to be a no-doubter and your coach has to be a "STFU, I decide who's QB" kind of guy.    SF actually looks like a good fit but they have Colt McCoy.  
I'd rather have every single one of those guys over Tebow though I might consider him over Davis (of course Atlanta doesn't run a read option).

And the thing is, sure you don't need to hit 73% of your passes, but you do need to hit 50% of them and Tebow can't even do that.  He just isn't accurate and couple that with his very slow release and there is just no point in having him on your team.   

9/10/2013 9:39 AM
That's just you drinking haterade.

Per 16 starts:
Passing
Tebow: 2422-17-9
Jackson:  3329-18-16

Running
Tebow:  989-12-15(fumbles)
Jackson:  302-2-11

So, what you have is 3411 yds, 29 td, 24 turnovers to 3631, 20, 27.

Do you even watch football?
9/10/2013 9:41 AM
Posted by moranis on 9/10/2013 9:35:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/9/2013 6:32:00 PM (view original):
Actually, he is.  A read/option guy doesn't have to complete 73% of his passes.   He just needs to be able to hit open receivers consistently.   Tebow seems to be a little lacking there but he could fill in for a half or a game without overhauling the entire offense because RGIII, Kap, Newton, etc, etc got dinged. 

Seriously, look at the back-ups in the NFL.   Do you want Derek Anderson behind the wheel?   Mike Glennon?   Tavaris Jackson?  Dominique Davis?   GTFO. 

But, FWIW, I do understand why teams don't want Tebow on their bench.   He has a following.   As I've said, repeatedly, your #1 has to be a no-doubter and your coach has to be a "STFU, I decide who's QB" kind of guy.    SF actually looks like a good fit but they have Colt McCoy.  
I'd rather have every single one of those guys over Tebow though I might consider him over Davis (of course Atlanta doesn't run a read option).

And the thing is, sure you don't need to hit 73% of your passes, but you do need to hit 50% of them and Tebow can't even do that.  He just isn't accurate and couple that with his very slow release and there is just no point in having him on your team.   

So, historically, he hits 48% of his passes.   Over the course of 300 passes, that's 6 incompletions more than if he hit 50%.    Huh?
9/10/2013 9:45 AM
Here's the problem with Tebow:   He misses wide open receivers by 10 yards.   Coaches, and fans, can't stand that.   The good thing about that is he also misses the defender by 8 yards.   He doesn't throw stupid passes into coverage, probably because he knows he can't pinpoint passes, so his turnover ratio is pretty solid.   Ask any coach if he'd rather a pass be 5 yards short or an interception and all will take the horrible pass.    They just can't stand the wide open misses because they "coached" that play, it should have worked and Tebow failed it.
9/10/2013 10:08 AM
Jackson has a higher career rating than Tebow and is highly respected in the Seahawks locker room.  Not to mention, the Hawks don't run as much read option as you think, and Jackson is more than capable of running if need be.  The circus of Tebow and the lack of being able to complete fifty percent of his passes is enough for me to go TJ every day of the week.  In the NFL today, you better be at least 60 percent.

Living in the Seattle area, I get deluged with Seahawks info.  TJ is a much better backup plan for the Seahawks.

9/10/2013 10:20 AM
Posted by The Taint on 9/10/2013 10:08:00 AM (view original):
Jackson has a higher career rating than Tebow and is highly respected in the Seahawks locker room.  Not to mention, the Hawks don't run as much read option as you think, and Jackson is more than capable of running if need be.  The circus of Tebow and the lack of being able to complete fifty percent of his passes is enough for me to go TJ every day of the week.  In the NFL today, you better be at least 60 percent.

Living in the Seattle area, I get deluged with Seahawks info.  TJ is a much better backup plan for the Seahawks.

Career rating aside, did you look at the stats I posted?    TJ turns the ball over waaaaay too much and doesn't provide anything to cover for it.    I imagine Tebow would be "respected" in the locker room.   No one has criticized his character or work ethic.    He's just not an accurate thrower. 

Now, if you want to say "the circus of Tebow" is the main reason you'd take TJ over Tebow, I'm fine with that.   Wilson is entrenched as the QB but I'm not sure Carroll is the type that can handle the circus. 




9/10/2013 10:28 AM
I saw the stats, but I'm looking deeper than that in this situation.  Darrell Bevel has been TJax Offensive Coordinator almost his entire career(except last season), he's played extensively with Sydney Rice and Percy Harvin, and he's highly respected in the locker room for his toughness as he played through some kind of pec tear in 2011 while leading the team to a .500 record....and the jury is out on Tebow actually being an NFL QB.  I'm not sure what you would gain by bringing him in instead of TJ.

If Pete Carrol thinks you can win, he will have you on his team.  Just look at the sheer amount of roster moves they've had since him and John Schneider took over the player personnel part of the organization. 

9/10/2013 11:29 AM
I think your irrational hatred of Tebow is the deciding factor.    Which it is for most of the haters.     Simply put, Tebow would give at least half the teams a better chance to win than the back-ups.    Brady Quinn has a job in the NFL.    How does that even happen?   Leinart was the Raiders back-up last season?  WTF?   Did you see "Hard Knocks"?   Josh Johnson, with his Tebow-like accuracy, and John Skelton battled it out for back-up.

9/10/2013 11:34 AM
I don't hate Tebow, I just think he sucks.
9/10/2013 11:43 AM
While I'm sure there are probably some QBs on rosters in the NFL that Tebow could do better than, I think it's really generous to assume he's going to give you a 2 to 1 TD/INT rate going forward.  In 2011, he had 1 pick in his first 7 starts, then 5 in his last 4 against 2 TDs.  When he was forced to throw a lot, he threw picks.  He also takes a ton of sacks - some of that could be on the O-line, but I think a lot of it is slow release and him trusting his ability to escape way more than he should.

I think he's borderline roster material without the circus, and the circus just seals it.
9/10/2013 12:05 PM
The sacks, I believe, comes mostly from his realization that he can't throw in tight windows.   Rather than fling one in there, he waits or tries to run. 

And there are a lot of QBs on NFL rosters that he could do better than for a short period.   If you can't throw accurately, you're not a long-term solution.   But I'd rather have Tebow come in for 2 1/2 quarters than at least half of the back-up QBs.   Then, if it was a long-term injury to my starter, I could address it over the next week or two.
9/10/2013 12:14 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/10/2013 9:39:00 AM (view original):
That's just you drinking haterade.

Per 16 starts:
Passing
Tebow: 2422-17-9
Jackson:  3329-18-16

Running
Tebow:  989-12-15(fumbles)
Jackson:  302-2-11

So, what you have is 3411 yds, 29 td, 24 turnovers to 3631, 20, 27.

Do you even watch football?
Tavaris Jackson has started 34 games and played in 50.  I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from.  He has a career completion % of 59.4 while Tebow is 47.9%. Tebow gets sacked at a significantly higher rate and is a fumbling machine.

Tebow is just not a NFL QB.  He isn't.  He could certainly be an H-Back or TE if he has any sort of hands.  He just refuses to play anything else.

9/10/2013 12:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/10/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
The sacks, I believe, comes mostly from his realization that he can't throw in tight windows.   Rather than fling one in there, he waits or tries to run. 

And there are a lot of QBs on NFL rosters that he could do better than for a short period.   If you can't throw accurately, you're not a long-term solution.   But I'd rather have Tebow come in for 2 1/2 quarters than at least half of the back-up QBs.   Then, if it was a long-term injury to my starter, I could address it over the next week or two.
I don't really know that I believe Tebow has that little faith in his arm.  I don't have enough evidence to be convinced that his low INT totals aren't almost entirely a product of how little he's been asked to throw.  And you don't have to hit a tight window to throw it away rather than take a sack.  He's used to being faster than most LBs and DLs and he's never adjusted to that fact.

That being said, I don't necessarily disagree with that second paragraph.  I think I said this in a prior conversation - I think because he's such an obviously poor passer, the Broncos used him better than most teams use their backups.  They basically said "we're not going to throw anymore than we absolutely have to." A lot of teams seem to think their backups are capable of more than they are.
9/10/2013 1:07 PM
Posted by moranis on 9/10/2013 12:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/10/2013 9:39:00 AM (view original):
That's just you drinking haterade.

Per 16 starts:
Passing
Tebow: 2422-17-9
Jackson:  3329-18-16

Running
Tebow:  989-12-15(fumbles)
Jackson:  302-2-11

So, what you have is 3411 yds, 29 td, 24 turnovers to 3631, 20, 27.

Do you even watch football?
Tavaris Jackson has started 34 games and played in 50.  I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from.  He has a career completion % of 59.4 while Tebow is 47.9%. Tebow gets sacked at a significantly higher rate and is a fumbling machine.

Tebow is just not a NFL QB.  He isn't.  He could certainly be an H-Back or TE if he has any sort of hands.  He just refuses to play anything else.

I divided his career stats by 34 and multiplied it by 16.    It's math. 

As you can see, Jackson throws a fuckton more INT and fumbles almost as frequently(without the benefit of actually doing anything on the ground). 

As for passing percentage, I can throw a football with the wife in the backyard and complete 95% of my passes.    Get off completion percentage as the be all to end of QB stats.
9/10/2013 2:30 PM
Jackson's career sack % is nearly 2.5% better than Tebow.   Jackson fumbles every 54.2 touches (pass attempts + rushes + sacks / fumbles).  Tebow fumbles every 39.9 touches.  Tebow's main year his completion % was 46.5% well below his average because as he had more opportunities to throw he had a lot more misses.  That is the point.  The more Tebow throws the worse he is.  Tarvaris on the otherhand was over 60% in his most prolific passing season.   Hell Tebow had a game where he was 2 for 8 for 69 yards in the entire game and Denver won that game.  He followed that up with a 9 for 20, 104 yards, another victory and yet another victory where he went 9 for 18 and 143.  So in a 3 game stretch Tebow went 20 for 46 for 316 yards with 2 TD's and was 3-0.  He had another game where he was 6 of 22 for 60 yards, a 4 point loss.  The reality is Denver won those games in spite of Tebow, not because of him.  He is a solid runner without question and adds a nice element there, but you have to be able to throw the ball when you aren't running.  That is why a guy like Terrelle Pryor is starting for Oakland and not Tebow.  Pryor at least can hit the open man and is every bit the runner Tebow is.
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