9/17/2013 1:29 PM
Had to do 4 season for kcdumb's high range/glove, weak arm guy in order to get similar innings.   He's doing just fine.

 

 

inn

po

A

e

Plus

neg

Total

PPPS

Mark White

3B

3

0

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Mark White

3B

117

16

41

0

1

0

0.359

523.4

Juan Santiago

3B

1

0

1

0

0

0

1.000

1458.0

Juan Rivera

3B

191

25

67

3

4

0

0.356

519.1

Jorge Castillo

3B

32

4

9

1

0

0

0.250

364.5

Jorge Castillo

3B

1

0

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Jorge Castillo

3B

794.2

77

212

17

0

4

0.240

350.6

Joaquin Jacquez

3B

28

1

14

1

1

0

0.500

729.0

Joaquin Jacquez

3B

2

0

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Buster Dykstra

3B

7

1

0

0

1

0

0.143

208.3

Buster Dykstra

3B

14

2

4

0

0

0

0.286

416.6

Buster Dykstra

3B

71.1

8

16

0

3

0

0.267

389.6

Buster Dykstra

3B

103

18

30

0

5

0

0.340

495.4

Chip Linden

3B

35

5

16

0

1

0

0.486

708.2

Cliff Nicholas

3B

1231

125

332

6

12

0

0.275

400.3

Damaso James

3B

74.2

7

21

1

0

0

0.270

393.0

Damaso James

3B

77

9

21

0

0

1

0.260

378.7

Damaso James

3B

270.1

20

81

5

0

2

0.274

399.5

Damaso James

3B

125

14

37

3

0

2

0.256

373.2

Daryl Spivey

3B

1

0

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Daryl Spivey

3B

2.2

1

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

 

 

3180

333

902

37

28

9

0.278

405.3

Jason Jordan

3B

1228

114

351

13

18

1

0.289

421.4

Jason Jordan

3B

1330

121

418

17

21

1

0.317

461.5

Jason Jordan

3B

28

3

9

2

1

0

0.286

416.6

 

 

2586

238

778

32

40

2

0.303

442.0

9/17/2013 1:54 PM
For the discussion, I think you need to take out PO because it's irrelevant.
Unless he throws it to himself for the putout. And even then, he could do that with a 1 arm strength.
9/17/2013 2:02 PM
PO are removed for IF.   Learn your PPPS!!!!!!
9/17/2013 2:21 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/17/2013 1:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/17/2013 12:53:00 PM (view original):
If there's a threshold that needs to be hit for a (-) to register, this may throw a wrench into Mike's DH to RF idea as well?

My "Positive Plays Per Season" formula should take care of that.    My C/RF generally fall 50 plays short of the norm.

Here's your boy over the last three seasons:

 

 

inn

po

A

e

Plus

neg

Total

PPPS

Alejandro Gutierrez

3B

308.2

29

79

4

3

0

0.253

369.0

Branch Quinn

3B

5

2

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Branch Quinn

3B

69

4

16

0

0

0

0.232

338.1

Brett Abbott

3B

6

1

1

0

0

0

0.167

243.0

Charles Ueno

3B

9

1

3

0

0

0

0.333

486.0

Tom Hines

3B

39

3

17

2

1

0

0.410

598.2

Stuart Chapman

3B

1.2

0

0

0

0

0

0.000

0.0

Kris Buss

3B

1236

150

297

9

17

1

0.246

358.5

Damaso Colome

3B

14

0

5

0

1

0

0.429

624.9

 

 

1688

190

418

15

22

1

0.251

366.3

Coco Hentgen

3B

273.2

29

59

6

0

1

0.190

277.5

Coco Hentgen

3B

1136

114

307

19

2

3

0.253

368.3

Coco Hentgen

3B

98

7

26

0

0

0

0.265

386.8

 

 

1507

150

392

25

2

4

0.242

353.1



So, to me, he's only costing you 13 outs of a full 162 game, 9 inning season.    That's assuming those others are typical 3B.

Thanks, Mike.

Hentgen did lose 4 points of range and 3 points of arm strength in the offseason.  So there's that.  Shouldn't be enough for that much of a difference, though.

Also, Buss is clearly a better defender than Hentgen was.  Across the board...it's why I switched the 2 from 3B and 2B in the first place.  So it's interesting to see them playing similarly in your formula.  Maybe Hentgen overachieved last year.

This helps some.  I was kinda shocked to see all the infield singles to 3B.  I'm going to be paying more attention the rest of the year, maybe I'll end up changing something up.  And maybe look at defense a little differently moving forward.
9/17/2013 2:31 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/17/2013 12:53:00 PM (view original):
If there's a threshold that needs to be hit for a (-) to register, this may throw a wrench into Mike's DH to RF idea as well?
Yeah. Looking back on that thread:



Quote post by tufft on 6/6/2012 2:36:00 PM:
Has anyone done any sort of analysis to test if ALL fielding differences are reflected in +/- plays and errors?

It seems that my pitchers have much better stats when I have a team has above average (by HBD recommendations) fielders at every position than when I don't. And that the +/- plays & errors don't come close to having enough of an impact to explain that.

I suspect that much of the impact of fielding is not shown in the box score or play-by-play.  Which means balls are caught or drop in for hits based on fielding and there is no way for us to know if any particular play had anything to do with fielding ratings.

Before I buy into the Rock In RF Theory, I'd want to see a lot of data that includes putouts, assists, and how many times a runner went 1st-3rd or scored from 2nd on balls hit to RF.   Not that I'm going to gather the data. But it would be cool if someone did. And shared it with me.  And nobody else.




tufft raised the issue, but I think someone confused this with overlapping ranges, so it got sidetracked without really being addressed

9/17/2013 3:19 PM
I addressed it, but I only shared it with Tufft and nobody else.
9/17/2013 3:45 PM
Well that's not nice.
9/23/2013 3:59 PM
Posted by deathinahole on 9/15/2013 11:19:00 PM (view original):
It's the difference between one assist every 3-3.5 innings for at or above recs (not much difference once you hit them) or one assist every 4 ish innings when you have a guy with 2b recs.
In other words, you are giving up a free hit every 1 to 1 1/2 games.

Intuitively, this seems right, but if you look at the stats this doesn't play out.
Find a team that platoons these guys - if this is the case, the range factor would be considerably lower for these low arm strength guys.
It doesn't work out like that.




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