All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > 'Guaranteed Start' Logic
9/19/2013 10:30 AM
noticed that bob's player hit that 21/26 start mark as of last night.... guys has still dropped from 60s to 30s in WE.  anyone know if it helps if he starts him in the conference tourney?  I know you can bench them in CT and not be penalized.... but what about helped by starting in the CT?

9/19/2013 10:42 AM
anyone know if it helps if he starts him in the conference tourney?  I know you can bench them in CT and not be penalized.... but what about helped by starting in the CT?
I don't think that would help.  I'm pretty sure that has no impact.  Unfortunately, I think when you get the WE hit right near the end of the season, there's no way to get it back.

bob, did the player complain after the 9/16 Louisiana game?  It looks like you handled it perfectly up to that point, but that last non-start left him at 18/23 starts, which is just under 80%.  He's back over 80% now, but he may not "check" again to see if he's over 80%.
9/19/2013 11:15 AM
some kids need 90% to be happy, although if killbatman's assumptions are correct then this kid would seem to be at 80%. On the start when healthy thing someone upthread mentioned, the threshold for what the player considers healthy is 60%... CT games do not count for promises. 
9/19/2013 11:17 AM
bob, did the player complain after the 9/16 Louisiana game?  It looks like you handled it perfectly up to that point, but that last non-start left him at 18/23 starts, which is just under 80%.  He's back over 80% now, but he may not "check" again to see if he's over 80%.

If this is true and the player doesn't "check" back after a certain point, that is a lesson I will consider learned for in the future.
9/21/2013 3:35 AM
Hey killbatman - yes the player did complain immediately following the Louisiana game, which did push me under 80% of the games started. It was also a 2nd consecutive non-start, which may have made it even worse. I was concerned not only about the 39 point WE drop, but also a possible transfer. There was no change in status after the regular season, even though I started him the rest of the season. That made 21 of 26 games started.

However, I did decide to continue to start him during the opening conference tournament game. After this game, I got an email from him acknowledging the starts and that he was happy here. So apparently, these conference tourney games may help if you are borderline negative on a promise.

It will be interesting to see if his WE improves any more this season, or if it would jump quickly the following season. I will report those results on this thread.

I appreciate everyone's insights, and hope my findings may be helpful to you as well.
9/21/2013 11:24 PM
Well, during the day today, Reilly's WE jumped 28 points (thanks brianxavier for pointing that out today). Perhaps there is a slight delay between the time you get the "I'm Happy Now" email and the time the WE increase takes place. Sooo, 28 of the 36 points have recovered. His WE is pretty high, with not a bunch of high highs left, so his progress should not be impeded much.

Glad we posted this thread and for your responses. Maybe we all leaned just a little something.
9/22/2013 12:24 AM
bob and I chatted about this, and it's interesting to me that he got the positive email without an immediate increase in WE.  But like he said, it kicked in eventually, now almost fully recovered to his original.  he is high 60s now, so he'll be in good shape regardless of any further improvement.  
9/23/2013 9:53 AM
Thanks for posting the results bob.  I've never had a player gain WE back during the CT, so it's good to know it's possible.

It makes me wonder if the CT start had an impact, or if it was a delayed "check" from the end of the regular season.  Interesting.

9/23/2013 12:14 PM
Posted by p6453 on 9/18/2013 3:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MyGeneration on 9/18/2013 10:52:00 AM (view original):
Love your comment about sitting a guy for disciplinary reasons. I have done that even though I know it doesn't do anything. Often wish I could take action when a player chirps for minutes or his WE drops. ("Relax, you are going to start next year!") I have cut players whose attitudes I did not like. Once cut a guy whose attitude was bad and whose face made it worse.
+1
Lol, that is pretty funny...it's like anti-money ball finding and cutting computer generated players for attitude, discipline, and also cosmetic reasons. I'll have to start watching my players' body language in practice not just if and how much they are improving.
9/24/2013 2:56 PM
i agree with killbatman, ive never had trouble with 21/26 as long as you do the 5 late in the season. never made the 80% connection but it sure sounds right to me, you will always have the player "recover" if you do like, 5 no starts early, and then start the next 21 - but you end with worse work ethic. so best to use his system. im sure there is more to it though, as ive forgotten to start guys the first at least 6, i think 7 games, and they've stayed. ive also not started 6 games a number of times when the 6th was right at the end, i believe, last 2 games of the season. im not sure, but it seems to me the last time players complain is before the end of the season, by a game or two. grades are 2 from the end, so maybe its that? im not sure, but i am pretty sure ive gotten away with 20 starts. i guess hitting 20/25 and then not starting the rest of teh way is consistentish with the 80% theory? with the addition that the final regular season game is past the final check? there may be an additional check later for players who complain (sounds like from someone's post there is), but im almost positive there is no further check for players who are not actively complaining.
 
9/24/2013 8:45 PM
Just another anecdote that seems pretty consistent with OP's case.

Iin my D1 conference a coach had a player give him the thumbs up message after the 1st CT game after sending a ****** off email before that.  The kid had started 17/22 games and he complained.  The coach then started him the rest of the way (5 games in regular season) then after the 1st CT game he got the thumbs up.  So right now he's started 23/28 games in the season.
9/26/2013 6:39 PM
My experience has been that almost every time I missed 5 starts PRIOR to game 22, the guy has a cow. And most of THOSE times, the missed starts were due to injury, missed while hurt, but back in as soon as he reached 90%.

A few times, I've had guys who looked good enough to start for young teams but their play was terrible and I sat them a few more times than I should have, in this instance, every single time I hit 5 missed starts at less than 22 games, they have dropped in WE.

The times when I have sat a player who had been promised a start after game 21, for the remainder of the season, 2 for certain have complained, most accepted it, and no one has ever transferred after missing 5 -10 starts. I did have a guy once who's potential flamed out after 10 games who missed all the starts after that point because I planned on cutting him anyway and didn't care if he transferred. Even he didn't transfer. I did cut him though. I seldom make a promise I don't intend to keep, but the times when I have been unhappy with the result, I have only once had a problem if I waited until after game 22 to sit him. After game 21, you will have problems with SOME, but not all players. I did one time have a problem with a player who got sat down after game 23, but that has only happened once.

9/26/2013 10:48 PM
So what does it take to make a guy transfer?  Leave the redshirt on him, when he is upset about it?  Never live up to the promised start?
9/27/2013 12:24 PM
Very hard to say. Some will transfer for various reasons which will seem to make little sense, when compared to the majority who will never leave at all. I have had exactly 1 kid transfer, ever and it was so long ago I can't even tell you what was the reason. Others I have tried to get to transfer have not done so, and that includes non-fulfilled promises, no playing time, removal from the roster. I haven't left a redshirt on, but that is only because anyone I want to redshirt, I generally don't WANT to have transfer, nor do I wish to take a 50 point hit on WE because that essentially turns a good player into a near useless player. I may try that the next time I recruit one of those guys who can't seem to make the grades with 20-25 mins of studyhall, those guys I usually cut anyway, so they'd be a perfect candidate to experiment with.
9/27/2013 12:49 PM
Posted by amun_ra on 9/27/2013 12:24:00 PM (view original):
Very hard to say. Some will transfer for various reasons which will seem to make little sense, when compared to the majority who will never leave at all. I have had exactly 1 kid transfer, ever and it was so long ago I can't even tell you what was the reason. Others I have tried to get to transfer have not done so, and that includes non-fulfilled promises, no playing time, removal from the roster. I haven't left a redshirt on, but that is only because anyone I want to redshirt, I generally don't WANT to have transfer, nor do I wish to take a 50 point hit on WE because that essentially turns a good player into a near useless player. I may try that the next time I recruit one of those guys who can't seem to make the grades with 20-25 mins of studyhall, those guys I usually cut anyway, so they'd be a perfect candidate to experiment with.
there are players who cant make the grades with 20-25m of studyhall? ive never seen or heard of that... 
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