I know this is probably hard to do, but I'm wondering if people here frequently inform pulldowns of RS. 

I was rebuilding a program with a C- . Pulled a guy down, then informed him of RS. Well, little did I know, he went back to my D1 screen and the next cycle he rejected my effort and a 3-4 cycles later somebody jumped on him. If I knew this, I could have tacked on more SVs.

In your guys's opinion, when is the best time to inform of RS if you're pulling someone down? I'm assuming if you do it before he opens up to your efforts, it will take far more SV's to pull him down. I'm thinking this is the best way to do it though. That way you don't have to have the suspense of him dropping you, going back to D1 and someone jumping on him.

How many more SVs on average do you all think it would take? 

My impression is the reaction to inform of RS is partially based on how good the recruit is relative to your level/prestige.  So yeah, I would expect a pulldown to be slightly tougher than the average bear to throw the RS on.

But you shouldn't need more SVs.  Once you've completed the pulldown, just load some HVs and then inform of RS.  For someone you've just pulled down, he'll be only barely considering you and a RS by itself is likely to do exactly what you described.  It's very tough to get them back once they reject the scholly and basically shut their phone off.

I would say about 5-6 HVs is what you want (disclaimer: that figure is based on mostly D3 experience).  Do a few more if you can afford it and want to be safe.  Then inform of RS after they take effect..or do it in the same cycle as the HVs if you feel bold.  As far as the right time..whenever you feel comfortable with your balance of targets and cash.  That could be immediately or right before signings or anywhere in between.  

Honestly, I think informing a pulldown of a RS is a bad idea.  You are much more likely to have them accept it without informing.

Posted by abitaamber on 9/18/2013 10:44:00 PM (view original):
Honestly, I think informing a pulldown of a RS is a bad idea.  You are much more likely to have them accept it without informing.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.  There's some % chance less than 100% that they'll accept the RS blind.  They'll 100% accept the RS if you've informed during recruiting.  And informing isn't a crapshoot, it's just a question of sending enough effort for it to work.

the timing matters as well, since the inform happens immediately while sometimes the supporting effort to placate the kid can come "too late" because it waits for the next cycle. I have had a kid drop me because he wasn't into me enough when I sent the inform and some HVs at the same time. Got his "you crazy" response first next cycle, then the HVs were refused after that same cycle. If I'm not showing tight or similar I will send the gravy first, wait til it processes then send the inform the next cycle...

If you absolutely want to make sure the guy will take the RS, its best to inform.

Having said that, it's best NOT to inform:

1. In the heat of a battle

2. If you don't have the cash to put up the HVs to compensate for the negative recruiting hit of the RS inform

It's best to inform if you want ANY chance to RS someone who is:

1. Much more talented than your current guys at that postion

2. Anything other than a freshman

I have been informing on juco JRs lately if I find some with good remaining potential. Gives them time to get closer to (if not reaching) max and if they don't play my sets gives them a bit of practice for IQ so they can step in and possibly start if needed. I agree with bistiza's post as well.

Killbatman, I'm well aware of what you said,  And I stand by my statement.  I don't ever try and get a pulldown to accept a RS unless I have a lot of cash and don't expect any battles.  Only time it ever makes sense IMO.  I'd rather take my chances afterwards.

As for your statement that informing isn't a crapshoot...yes and no.  There are certain recruits who will never be ok with you informing, regardless of the cash spent.

Can you cite an example of a player who wouldn't accept the RS with a huge amount of effort (incl level and generally how good he was)?  It sounds like you might be talking about high-D1 and admittedly I don't have any teams there.

I inform of RS a lot and I've never run into that.  I could name several examples of JUCOs I informed of RS as a D3 team, and they ended up looking like high-D1 starters.  That's about as big of a gap between talent and team-level as you can have, and I've never had a problem doing it.

But even if what you say is true, that doesn't imply that they're "much more likely" to accept the RS blind.  That's just misinformation imo.

If you have the extra money just throw some HVs with it and you'll be fine. 

In my personal experience, every recruit objects to being redshirted when informed, but every one will still join your team if you've already thrown enough effort his way (and no one else tries to battle you for him).

I recently pulled down a guy I wanted to redshirt, no one battled me, and so after he was already considering me and "can't wait to sign", I sent another five HVs one cycle and he said something like "my family was skeptical but now they are as excited as I am! I can't wait to play for you coach!".

The next cycle I informed of redshirt and he said something like "I want to play right away so I'll be looking for that opportunity elsewhere" BUT he never stopped considering me and signed immediately once signings began.

I have yet to find a recruit who won't sign even when informed of redshirt as long as two things are true:

1. You throw enough effort at him to begin with;

2. No one else tries to recruit him.

Bistiza is right on the money with both of his posts.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the discussion

every recruit objects to being redshirted when informed,

Completely agree with bistiza except for this one bit.  Players that are 'not good enough' for your team will happily accept the RS when informed (or to be clear, they might still send you an angry email, but won't stop considering you, even without extra effort). 

For example, those scrubs who show up on your list sometimes unsolicited.  I've informed of RS on them before and they stayed on my list.  I've also had it happen as an A+ D3 with a sub-400 OVR player who was barely good enough to recruit.  I actually tried to get him off my list with inform of RS and he stayed on there with only a few SVs worth of effort on my part.

they might still send you an angry email

Sorry for the confusion, but THIS is what I meant when I said every recruit objects. killbatman is right, though - some weaker recruits won't object in the sense they won't take much if any negative hit from an inform RS.

Terrible players can and often do stay on your considering list even after an inform of RS, much to the chagrin of many coaches who would actually rather have them go away.