All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Andy Pettitte retiring and HOF
9/20/2013 4:40 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 4:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Yea, I generally go by fangraphs on most things, I figured you were too.

Their peaks are similar, and one of them compiled 300 wins.  So...I'll definitely take the guy with 300 wins.  It's quite an accomplishment to pitch that long and be that successful.  And while a lot of "winning games" has to do with playing on very good teams, you need to be a great pitcher to reach that milestone, and he should be rewarded for that.

Glavine was a different pitcher than most.  He lived just off the plate, and made you swing at pitches that weren't easy to hit hard.  He kept you uncomfortable at the plate without ridiculous stuff or a 98 MPH fastball.  His FIP and xFIP were always off from his ERA for this reason.

Getting 300 wins is an accomplishment. But the difference between a 300 game winner and a 270 game winner is negligible.
Is getting 270 wins an accomplishment? 
Sure. I wouldn't not vote for Glavine if he had 295 or 285 or 275 wins instead, would you?
9/20/2013 4:41 PM
270 is 270 more than you got. 
9/20/2013 4:42 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 4:38:00 PM (view original):
There's something to be said about reaching a major milestone.  300 wins is a huge one.
I sort of disagree. I think the milestone is nice but in terms of overall value, 300 pitching wins doesn't mean anything more than 299 pitching wins.
9/20/2013 4:43 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/20/2013 4:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Yea, I generally go by fangraphs on most things, I figured you were too.

Their peaks are similar, and one of them compiled 300 wins.  So...I'll definitely take the guy with 300 wins.  It's quite an accomplishment to pitch that long and be that successful.  And while a lot of "winning games" has to do with playing on very good teams, you need to be a great pitcher to reach that milestone, and he should be rewarded for that.

Glavine was a different pitcher than most.  He lived just off the plate, and made you swing at pitches that weren't easy to hit hard.  He kept you uncomfortable at the plate without ridiculous stuff or a 98 MPH fastball.  His FIP and xFIP were always off from his ERA for this reason.

Getting 300 wins is an accomplishment. But the difference between a 300 game winner and a 270 game winner is negligible.
Well, it's about 30 games.    Or, another way of putting it would be "2 seasons worth of wins".
It took Glavine 850 more innings to get those 30 wins (and 50 losses). 4+ seasons worth of pitching to get 2 seasons worth of wins.

Plus, pitching wins is a terribly stupid stat.
9/20/2013 4:45 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 4:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/20/2013 4:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 9/20/2013 3:17:00 PM (view original):
Yea, I generally go by fangraphs on most things, I figured you were too.

Their peaks are similar, and one of them compiled 300 wins.  So...I'll definitely take the guy with 300 wins.  It's quite an accomplishment to pitch that long and be that successful.  And while a lot of "winning games" has to do with playing on very good teams, you need to be a great pitcher to reach that milestone, and he should be rewarded for that.

Glavine was a different pitcher than most.  He lived just off the plate, and made you swing at pitches that weren't easy to hit hard.  He kept you uncomfortable at the plate without ridiculous stuff or a 98 MPH fastball.  His FIP and xFIP were always off from his ERA for this reason.

Getting 300 wins is an accomplishment. But the difference between a 300 game winner and a 270 game winner is negligible.
Well, it's about 30 games.    Or, another way of putting it would be "2 seasons worth of wins".
It took Glavine 850 more innings to get those 30 wins (and 50 losses). 4+ seasons worth of pitching to get 2 seasons worth of wins.

Plus, pitching wins is a terribly stupid stat.

Then why did you say "But the difference between a 300 game winner and a 270 game winner is negligible"?

Could one argue that the terribly stupid stat is meaningless?    And, if one chooses that argument, doesn't that mean "negligible" is a gross overstatement?

 

9/20/2013 4:46 PM
neg·li·gi·ble
'neglij?b?l/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.
9/20/2013 4:51 PM
Let's try this another way.   We know what I think of dWar.    How stupid would it be for me to say "The difference between 1.8 dWar and 2.2 dWar is negligible"?  
9/20/2013 4:55 PM
Fine, if you want, we won't use pitcher wins anymore. Works for me.
9/20/2013 5:00 PM
No, I'll be glad to use them.   Pitchers that win a lot of games, season or career, are pretty good.    You think wins are a "terribly stupid stat" so maybe you shouldn't use it.
9/20/2013 5:04 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 9/20/2013 4:46:00 PM (view original):
neg·li·gi·ble
'neglij?b?l/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant.
This is about as 'wHaCk' as it gets... Simple math... 300 W's,
& 270 W's is a 'LARGE' 10% difference... 

Since U claim it's 'neglij?b?l/', then defer 10% of your monthly
income 2 me... Prove it's 'neglij?b?l/', in 6 months time... Put
your money where your dumb mouth is, & cough it up 2 me...

Better yet, change your life, & give the 10% 'neglij?b?l/' money
2 God, instead... Or, is it really that 'neglij/?b?l/' ???... Jerk-off...
9/20/2013 5:05 PM
Sure, I'm fine with not using them. They are a terribly stupid stat. Burnsy brought up the 300 win milestone. I said there really isn't a difference between a 300 game winner and a 270 game winner. Negligible, so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering.
9/20/2013 5:26 PM
If the Mets had won 30 more games, they'd have the best record in baseball.
9/20/2013 5:32 PM
If it rains tomorrow the sidewalk will get wet.

Are we playing the non sequitur game?
9/20/2013 5:33 PM
Just saying wins aren't as trivial as you make them out to be.   They sort of determine who plays in October. 

Hell, your Godstat has "wins" in it.
9/20/2013 5:41 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/20/2013 5:33:00 PM (view original):
Just saying wins aren't as trivial as you make them out to be.   They sort of determine who plays in October. 

Hell, your Godstat has "wins" in it.
No ****, sherlock. Team wins matter a shitload. But we aren't talking about team wins. Try to keep up.
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All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Andy Pettitte retiring and HOF

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