All amounts for FSS are pre-discount.

As it stands now, FSS for a state is roughly $6.50 a recruit, unless of course the state barely has any recruits since the minimum cost/state is $200. I wanted to run the numbers given the fact that Wooden is starting recruiting tonight and just generated. For the top 5 states by # of recruits, here is the breakdown:

NY (242 total, FSS cost $1,573): D1 - 81 (33%), D2 - 41 (17%), D3 - 120 (50%)

TX (232 total, FSS cost $1,495): D1 - 109 (47%), D2 - 68 (29%), D3 - 55 (24%)

CA (224 total, FSS cost $1,443): D1 - 116 (52%), D2 - 46 (21%), D3 - 62 (28%)

PA (203 total, FSS cost $1,313): D1 - 38 (19%), D2 - 48 (24%), D3 - 117 (58%)

NC (166 total, FSS cost $1,066): D1 - 57 (34%), D2 - 66 (40%), D3 - 43 (26%)

I also did FL, because well its a big state with a lot of schools in that area

FL (133 total, FSS cost $858): D1 - 69 (52%), D2 - 42 (32%), D3 - 22 (17%)

Using the tiered system (D1 = $15/recruit, D2 = $5/recruit, D3 = $3/recruit...I started with these as that's the breakdown of scholarship money), here are the impacts by state:

Negative amounts indicate higher cost under tiered than current

NY

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 1215 | 1573 | 358 |

D1/D2 | 1420 | 1573 | 153 |

D2/D3 | 565 | 1573 | 1008 |

all | 1780 | 1573 | -207 |

TX

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 1635 | 1495 | -140 |

D1/D2 | 1975 | 1495 | -480 |

D2/D3 | 505 | 1495 | 990 |

all | 2140 | 1495 | -645 |

CA

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 1740 | 1443 | -297 |

D1/D2 | 1970 | 1443 | -527 |

D2/D3 | 416 | 1443 | 1027 |

all | 2156 | 1443 | -713 |

PA

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 570 | 1313 | 743 |

D1/D2 | 810 | 1313 | 503 |

D2/D3 | 591 | 1313 | 722 |

all | 1161 | 1313 | 152 |

NC

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 855 | 1066 | 211 |

D1/D2 | 1185 | 1066 | -119 |

D2/D3 | 459 | 1066 | 607 |

all | 1314 | 1066 | -248 |

FL

new cost | current cost | savings | |

D1 | 1035 | 1313 | 278 |

D1/D2 | 1245 | 1313 | 68 |

D2/D3 | 276 | 1313 | 1037 |

all | 1311 | 1313 | 2 |

Overall, it seems like there would be significant savings at the D3 level (by purchasing D2 & D3), mixed results at the D2 level (either by purchasing D2 & D1, or all 3), and slight savings at D1 level (by purchasing just D1 or D1/D2). Dropdowns would be added once they drop (i.e. if you are D3 and you only purchase D3, any D2 dropdowns will show up when they drop without you doing anything extra). Not to drudge this topic back up, but I also think this would help with the "multiple teams in one world" debate somewhat. If a coach has a D1 and a D3 team, the admins would know if they were purchasing D3 FSS with their D1 team, which wouldn't make logical sense unless they were trying to game the system. Sorry for the long-winded post, but this really intrigues me and I'd like to get thoughts from more experienced coaches/posters.

rednu, so the two issues I took from your reply are:Posted by rednu on 10/1/2013 11:30:00 PM (view original):

The problem I see is that not every team sees the same recruits, so a lower prestige team will see fewer D3 recruits, so this formula would make it even harder for these teams to compete because they'd have to pay more for a larger pool of D2 players to pull down from vs. an A+ team, which would see a lot of D3 recruits and likely fewer D2's. Also, how do we handle recruits that eventually drop? Does scouting that player suddenly become cheaper once he moves D2 to D3? (or D1 to D2)

#1 - Lower prestige teams don't see as many current-division recruits as higher prestige teams, therefore the cost of FSS would be greater to these coaches.

#2 - Changes in values of players that drop

#1 - This is a very good point, and one that is tough to work out using a tiered system. I'd be curious to know from someone in Wooden what they see. The numbers of recruits at what class in the original post was what I could see at an A- prestige. I'd be interested in seeing the difference between that and say, a C-, or an A+. I would imagine the difference between A+ and C- would be significant, but just how many recruits would that be? Team X (C-) sees 25 fewer D3 recruits than Team Y (A+)? 50? 100? Depending on how many states you look at. Basically, this would mean that a D2 C- team would see, let's say 50 fewer D2 recruits as an A+ team. The C- team would see them as D1, meaning that they would be paying $500 (50 recruits x $10 difference in D1/D2 price) more for scouting D1/D2 than the A+ team.

#2 - I was working under the assumption that most coaches would scout their division and the division above them for any pulldowns. Therefore, if you coach D3 and you also scouted D2, and a player initially listed at D2 drops to D3, you would have overpaid by $2 to see his potentials early.

As rednu points out, bringing prestige into it by making the cost dependent on the recruit's listed division is just an unnecessary complication. I'd love to see total FSS report costs scaled to division. The simple way to do it would be to just use a flat, across-the-board cost per recruit/per state as it is now, but discounted for D3.

Having had a couple of D2 teams, I don't know that they need help, but D3 is painful if you have ambitions of getting usable players. Not everyone coaches in an elite conference.

Was wondering, if an owner is successful in D3, is it possible for him to get a job offer directly to D1 (say, a low prestige D1)? Or do you have to have a cup of coffee in D2 for a certain amount of years?

Thanks.

The forums are great. Ton of information from you guys. Lot to learn about the game.

As far as after recruiting starts and the price of players that have dropped down, I dont think it would be an issue to just have it be they are more expensive until they drop. How many guys is that in total? If you recruit 2-3 major states, lets say 20-25 players total drop down during recruiting (this includes the bad ones, not just the ones you add to your board). At the price you gave of $5 for DII and $3 for DIII, thats a $2 difference per player. So you might spend $50 more. If that $50 is breaking the bank, then odds are it wasnt going to matter. From DI to DII $15 and DII at $5, thats $10 per person. Thats a little more significant, but still, just a little less than a home visit at $250.

The concerns are not that hard of a fix. DII loses about 1 home visit, and DIII gets a better budget. I think thats not that bad.

Moving from D3 directly to D1 takes a number of seasons featuring deep NT runs. It is easier to go to D2 first, where a moderate level of success will earn you a chance at D1 after three or four seasons.Posted by npb7768 on 10/4/2013 9:34:00 PM (view original):

I'm new to the game...

Was wondering, if an owner is successful in D3, is it possible for him to get a job offer directly to D1 (say, a low prestige D1)? Or do you have to have a cup of coffee in D2 for a certain amount of years?

Thanks.

The forums are great. Ton of information from you guys. Lot to learn about the game.

I started a long time ago so some of the information I am giving here could be out of date, but as a rule I was able to move from D3 to D2 after just a season or two of posting decent D3 records. Then it took me about four seasons in D2 to be qualified for low-level D1 programs. The timetable may be a bit quicker now than it was when I first started playing, but that's what I recall from the good old days.

The fastest way to do it is get to d2 (1 season in d3 making the NT) and then 4-5 seasons at d2 (with at least 2 or so NT wins).

D1 is a totally different animal though, I highly reccomend learning the ropes at the lower levels first. It probably took me 30+ seasons to understand the game beyond a simple level.