All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > College Football > Playoffs, a season early
1/7/2014 4:27 PM
We question the coaches who make their living coaching all the time.  This is no different.

"I'm sure, statistically, in a vacuum, the odds are better."

That's all I'm saying, really.  I don't blame the coach or the player in this situation.

1/7/2014 4:37 PM
I don't think there's a coach in CFB or the NFL who tells the player to stop at the 1 with plans on getting the TD a little later.    FSU has two timeouts.   They call the first one when he takes the knee.   If Auburn scores on the next play, they succeeded in forcing FSU to use a TO.   If they get stuffed, or take another knee(insanity), FSU burns their second TO.  2nd down.  AU has burnt 10 seconds and forced FSU to use their TO.  If they get stuffed, or take another knee(insanity part 2), they can actually run out the clock because it's now 3rd down with 50+ seconds left.   So, really, very little is gained if AU scores on 1st/2nd down because the clock stops on 1st downs and clocking the ball isn't a big deal because you're already in 4 down territory if you're FSU. 

If I can think this out, do you not think a coach playing for the Natty hasn't already played it out?
1/7/2014 6:11 PM
Nobody said anything about taking a knee once you're at the goal line.

And yea, forcing a team to use time outs is a good thing.
1/7/2014 6:14 PM
Didn't FSU have one in their pocket when the game ended?   Simply put, taking a knee would have been taking a TD off the boards in hopes of gaining 5-10 seconds off the clock.    NOBODY would do that unless......well, this is no unless.
1/8/2014 9:15 AM
Huh? If they're only taking 5-10 seconds off the clock, that means they scored the TD.  Yes, any team would take 5-10 seconds off the clock given the opportunity.  And if it didn't work the first time and worked the second time instead, they get both TOs off the clock.
1/8/2014 9:22 AM
Huh?  FSU didn't need the TO.   Auburn needed to score. 

Simply put, someone better at coaching football than us didn't think it was a good idea. 
1/8/2014 9:27 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 9:22:00 AM (view original):
Huh?  FSU didn't need the TO.   Auburn needed to score. 

Simply put, someone better at coaching football than us didn't think it was a good idea. 
A team is better off if they cause the opposing team to use a timeout, rather than not use a timeout.  In general.  That's obvious.

Again, I don't think it's something he thought of in that moment.  And no, I don't think he gameplanned for "if we're 35 yards out down a FG with 1:15 left, down 3 points, I'm going to instruct my team to kneel at the one if they get a breakway run."

And if the argument of "they do this for a living, you don't" was used in any argument for discussing a coaches decisions, those arguments would all end quickly.  But we have discussions anyway.
1/8/2014 9:27 AM
Any team would take 5-10 seconds of the clock if given the opportunity to do so with no negative impact.  In this case, you have to trade a guaranteed touchdown for a potential future touchdown to do it - that's what no one would do in that situation, regardless of how the probabilities come out.


1/8/2014 9:28 AM
Posted by AlCheez on 1/8/2014 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Any team would take 5-10 seconds of the clock if given the opportunity to do so with no negative impact.  In this case, you have to trade a guaranteed touchdown for a potential future touchdown to do it - that's what no one would do in that situation, regardless of how the probabilities come out.


If it's only 5-10 seconds off the clock, that means the future touchdown was guaranteed.
1/8/2014 9:35 AM
And who knows how it would have turned out if FSU was forced to use a TO...Auburn knows in the situation where Winston threw the TD pass that there was a chance of a run because they had a TO.  They know a pass is coming if they have no TOs, and maybe would have defended differently, making it more difficult for Winston to throw his TD pass.
1/8/2014 9:40 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/8/2014 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Any team would take 5-10 seconds of the clock if given the opportunity to do so with no negative impact.  In this case, you have to trade a guaranteed touchdown for a potential future touchdown to do it - that's what no one would do in that situation, regardless of how the probabilities come out.


If it's only 5-10 seconds off the clock, that means the future touchdown was guaranteed.

But you're not advocating they not try to score on 1st down right?

So, your plan is to trade a guaranteed touchdown for what you hope will be a future TD, a burnt timeout, and maybe 5 seconds off the clock.  I'm not arguing that the probabilities aren't ultimately in your favor in doing so, I'm just saying no one actually makes that trade.

1/8/2014 10:15 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 9:22:00 AM (view original):
Huh?  FSU didn't need the TO.   Auburn needed to score. 

Simply put, someone better at coaching football than us didn't think it was a good idea. 
A team is better off if they cause the opposing team to use a timeout, rather than not use a timeout.  In general.  That's obvious.

Again, I don't think it's something he thought of in that moment.  And no, I don't think he gameplanned for "if we're 35 yards out down a FG with 1:15 left, down 3 points, I'm going to instruct my team to kneel at the one if they get a breakway run."

And if the argument of "they do this for a living, you don't" was used in any argument for discussing a coaches decisions, those arguments would all end quickly.  But we have discussions anyway.
I don't think you understand coaching.    At all. 

We certainly do discuss coaching decisions all the time.    But this is the first time I've seen someone say "Oh, he didn't bother to think of that."    I disagree.  100%.     
1/8/2014 11:06 AM
Posted by AlCheez on 1/8/2014 9:40:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 1/8/2014 9:28:00 AM (view original):
Any team would take 5-10 seconds of the clock if given the opportunity to do so with no negative impact.  In this case, you have to trade a guaranteed touchdown for a potential future touchdown to do it - that's what no one would do in that situation, regardless of how the probabilities come out.


If it's only 5-10 seconds off the clock, that means the future touchdown was guaranteed.

But you're not advocating they not try to score on 1st down right?

So, your plan is to trade a guaranteed touchdown for what you hope will be a future TD, a burnt timeout, and maybe 5 seconds off the clock.  I'm not arguing that the probabilities aren't ultimately in your favor in doing so, I'm just saying no one actually makes that trade.

Fair.  I get the idea that it's hard to say no to guaranteed points.  I just think the odds of FSU stopping Auburn on 3 straight runs from the goal line would have been incredibly slim.
1/8/2014 11:08 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 9:22:00 AM (view original):
Huh?  FSU didn't need the TO.   Auburn needed to score. 

Simply put, someone better at coaching football than us didn't think it was a good idea. 
A team is better off if they cause the opposing team to use a timeout, rather than not use a timeout.  In general.  That's obvious.

Again, I don't think it's something he thought of in that moment.  And no, I don't think he gameplanned for "if we're 35 yards out down a FG with 1:15 left, down 3 points, I'm going to instruct my team to kneel at the one if they get a breakway run."

And if the argument of "they do this for a living, you don't" was used in any argument for discussing a coaches decisions, those arguments would all end quickly.  But we have discussions anyway.
I don't think you understand coaching.    At all. 

We certainly do discuss coaching decisions all the time.    But this is the first time I've seen someone say "Oh, he didn't bother to think of that."    I disagree.  100%.     
I think it's cute you think you "understand coaching" better than I do.  

Regardless, the odds of Auburn winning were better had he kneeled at the one.  That's really my point.  I don't blame anyone for not taking guaranteed points though.
1/8/2014 12:45 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 1/8/2014 9:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/8/2014 9:22:00 AM (view original):
Huh?  FSU didn't need the TO.   Auburn needed to score. 

Simply put, someone better at coaching football than us didn't think it was a good idea. 
A team is better off if they cause the opposing team to use a timeout, rather than not use a timeout.  In general.  That's obvious.

Again, I don't think it's something he thought of in that moment.  And no, I don't think he gameplanned for "if we're 35 yards out down a FG with 1:15 left, down 3 points, I'm going to instruct my team to kneel at the one if they get a breakway run."

And if the argument of "they do this for a living, you don't" was used in any argument for discussing a coaches decisions, those arguments would all end quickly.  But we have discussions anyway.
I don't think you understand coaching.    At all. 

We certainly do discuss coaching decisions all the time.    But this is the first time I've seen someone say "Oh, he didn't bother to think of that."    I disagree.  100%.     
I think it's cute you think you "understand coaching" better than I do.  

Regardless, the odds of Auburn winning were better had he kneeled at the one.  That's really my point.  I don't blame anyone for not taking guaranteed points though.

I may not understand coachng any better than you.   But I'm pretty sure, given the situation were discussing, no CFB or NFL coach tells their player to take a knee at the one with plans on getting their TD on one of the next three plays(preferably the third because plays 1-2 don't accomplish much).    Sure, I'd do it playing a video game.   But, in the real world, no one would do it.

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All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > College Football > Playoffs, a season early

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