All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Bernie or Edgar?
12/2/2013 8:09 PM
A hypothetical situation.  

It's the mid 1980's, and you're the GM of a major league franchise.  You've been granted very limited access to information from the future, such that you can see the future careers of exactly two baseball players.  You've been told that you can pick one, and have him on your team for the duration of his career.

The two players are Bernie Williams and Edgar Martinez.

Who do you choose, and why?


Votes: 38
(Last vote received: 12/25/2013 1:35 AM)
12/2/2013 8:19 PM
I take Bernie Williams.  Williams could do everything, as a Red Sox fan he was truly a thorn in the side of Boston teams for a long time.
12/2/2013 8:55 PM
You have to take an everyday CF over a corner inf any day.  Also a switch hitter

Funny thing I saw Bernie williams strikeout 5 times in a game and couldn't figure out why they were playing him instead of Roberto Kelly.  I guess this is why Gene Michael belongs in the HOF????
12/2/2013 9:11 PM
Bernie Williams. He starts further over on the defensive spectrum and could move to either a corner, first or dh later in his career if need be to keep his bat in the lineup. Edgar was headed that way the day he put on a uniform, part of why he took so long to break through.
12/2/2013 9:31 PM
I voted Martinez. Edgar Martinez was one of the best, if not the best, hitter in baseball in his prime. In his prime, Bernie was a very good center fielder. I'd rather the guy who is arguably the best hitter in the game.
12/2/2013 11:05 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/2/2013 9:33:00 PM (view original):
I voted Martinez. Edgar Martinez was one of the best, if not the best, hitter in baseball in his prime. In his prime, Bernie was a very good center fielder. I'd rather the guy who is arguably the best hitter in the game.
I argree with your argument to a point.  I think too much is made of  "defensive prowess", etc.  Martinez was a total stud hitter (though Thomas, Frank was clearly superior in terms of the best hitter argument) BUT Williams also was in there every day.  You cannot say the same for Edgar Martinez.  Food for thought, a volume question I suppose.
12/3/2013 4:18 AM
Between Bernie Williams and Edgar Martinez, only one ever led the league in games played.  And it wasn't Bernie.  So I'm not really sure what you're getting at.
12/3/2013 6:28 AM
Williams.  You can sign some old, slow guy to 1-2 year contracts every year to DH.   Jason Giambi is still in baseball.  Jim Thome played into his 40s.  Barry Bonds could come out of retirement and muster the energy to walk to the plate 4 times a night.
12/3/2013 9:46 AM
Jason Giambi and Jim Thome don't compare to what Edgar Martinez did in his prime.

I don't think there's a wrong answer here.  But as for who makes the HOF, if you're considered one of the best hitters in baseball for years, you deserve much more consideration than the very good center fielder.
12/3/2013 9:57 AM
My point is what's easier to find?   A very good hitter who doesn't bother bringing a glove to the game or an average to above average CF who is a slighly less hitter?   I've watched the Yankees use Hafner, Ibanez, Jones, etc, etc at DH for the last couple of years.    And they've been effective albeit not consistent.    It's infinitely harder to find an A/S CF unsigned in February/March. 
12/3/2013 10:06 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 9:57:00 AM (view original):
My point is what's easier to find?   A very good hitter who doesn't bother bringing a glove to the game or an average to above average CF who is a slighly less hitter?   I've watched the Yankees use Hafner, Ibanez, Jones, etc, etc at DH for the last couple of years.    And they've been effective albeit not consistent.    It's infinitely harder to find an A/S CF unsigned in February/March. 
Don't mean to bring up this argument again, but I think the gap offensively between Edgar and Bernie is much bigger than you think it is.

I get your argument...maybe you're right.  I think it's very close.  Again, I don't think there's a wrong answer re: tec's question.
12/3/2013 10:16 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 12/3/2013 10:06:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/3/2013 9:57:00 AM (view original):
My point is what's easier to find?   A very good hitter who doesn't bother bringing a glove to the game or an average to above average CF who is a slighly less hitter?   I've watched the Yankees use Hafner, Ibanez, Jones, etc, etc at DH for the last couple of years.    And they've been effective albeit not consistent.    It's infinitely harder to find an A/S CF unsigned in February/March. 
Don't mean to bring up this argument again, but I think the gap offensively between Edgar and Bernie is much bigger than you think it is.

I get your argument...maybe you're right.  I think it's very close.  Again, I don't think there's a wrong answer re: tec's question.
Yeah, I won't restart the argument with you but, IIRC, EM averaged something like 6 XBH and 20 walks more per season(or per 162, can't really recall which) than BW.   I don't see that as the huge gap that makes up, and surpasses total value, that BW brings with fielding/baserunning.     And I wasn't really a big Bernie fan.   He looked like he loafed in the OF.  But that's just how he played.   Cano-like.
12/3/2013 10:23 AM

The difference between BW and EM was .075 OPS and 22 OPS+.

Seeing that BW played what is generally considered an important defensive position while EM spent the majority of his career picking his nose and scratching his *** on the bench when his team was on defense, I'd say that bridges the gap between the two.

12/3/2013 10:33 AM
In my opinion they are very evenly matched in terms of overall value.

I think when people throw out "he's only a DH", they tend to discount how hard it is to get that elite level hitter, even at DH.

For example, the Mariner's DH by year with their OPS since Edgar left:
Ibanez .792
Everett .658
Vidro .775
Vidro .612
Griffey .735
Branyan .802
Cust .673
Montero .685
Morales .785

It's clearly not that easy to replace an elite DH!!!!!
12/3/2013 10:36 AM
22 OPS+ is huge, by the way. That's the difference between Willie Mays and Fred McGriff.
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