1/5/2014 1:06 AM
I hear ya and while I haven't been ahead by that much of a difference against sim's, I have lost to a couple that I had the advantage. Whatever the problem is they need to get it fixed, because it's the same gripe that was against 2.0. Talent doesn't matter, but we do have more bells n whistles, woo hoo
1/5/2014 3:56 PM
The new whistles and bells are very nice no question 10x better than 2.0. However we'd like results driven by talent is what I thought we wanted so losing to Sims in the playoffs is a big no no especially when those sims are terrible.
1/5/2014 9:25 PM
I got smoked by a D1AA sim last season, and lucky to not have lost to one so far this season.  My defense is playing well, but the SIMS are holding down my wishbone offense like I've never seen before.  I'm getting worse results now vs SIMS than I would get in the past deep in the playoffs vs very talented human coached teams.  I feel like after 28 seasons I'm gonna have to dump the Wishbone.
1/5/2014 9:28 PM
gameplanning, gameplanning, gameplanning. The default defense against wishbone is almost 100% run
1/5/2014 10:08 PM
Posted by noah23 on 1/5/2014 9:28:00 PM (view original):
gameplanning, gameplanning, gameplanning. The default defense against wishbone is almost 100% run
Oh thank God noah is here to correct Bill, because otherwise we may never have figured out why the WB is so bad. IF we didn't have Noah, actually, I dare say we'd all be going blindly through this engine.

I'm not sure if you know this, pal, but winning a handful of CCs at D3 doesn't make you an engine expert. The issue with you isn't the fact that you offer advice or your opinion- it's the way you state it. OBVIOUSLY harris couldn't have found a problem with the engine and the way formations are used, it has to be the fact that he doesn't gameplan well enough. I'm sure you could do so much better if you were given the chance, since you know so much about this engine anyways.

I too have run WB exclusively on some of my teams, and it has never fared worse. And guess what? I throw the ball out of it, too. My run/pass distribution is closer to 60/40, and even the pass struggles. So no, pal, you don't have all the answers.
1/5/2014 11:08 PM

In defense of noah, I've honestly not experienced any difficulty beating SIMs with my established teams.  I've lost more than a few with my rebuild, but that's to be expected, as my talent level isn't there yet.  If losses to SIMs are happening 1-2 times per season, I would echo noah and suggest looking very closely at tendencies across the formations for your defensive gameplans.  Offensively, I can't speak to, as I don't run the WB, so its possible that formation is less effective for some reason.  One thought is to create separate formations and change personnel depending on whether you are running inside or outside (guess is you are doing this already).

Also, while there are many who feel practicing formations is a waste, I tend to put more practice minutes in formations than most.  Unsure of whether this has any effect, but, it seems to be working, so I'll continue.

1/6/2014 2:42 AM
I think there are differences in the strengths of certain formations compared to others that go beyond gameplanning.  This was true of version 2 as well though.  I am no expert, but my experiences in div 3 and in Beta lead me to believe shotgun>trips for passing and notredame>wishbone for running.  In beta it was almost exclusively human opponents as competition so it is hard to say the default gameplans made things easier or harder to have success against.  The engine has changed a bit since, but it isn't unreasonable to believe certain formations are still stronger than others, especially when certain default defenses against certain offenses are stronger than others. 


A good question for Oriole might be what components would make up a successful wishbone offense in version 3?  I think strength would be more useful than blocking, but that would be pretty obvious to most coaches at this point.  What other differences are there from version 2 and why does he think coaches who have had success with the wishbone are now struggling?  Is the wishbone unsuccesful across worlds?  Again, I wish there was a game guide to refer to that would save coaches and Oriole time getting and giving answers!!     
1/6/2014 2:48 AM
One component that would seem to be problematic for this offense is the fact that it is difficult to build a dominant offensive line.  In Beta, the higher composite attribute advantages over a defensive line didn't seem to provide any actual advantage in many cases, especially in the run game.  I don't run as often here in live 3.0, and there is no test game to play with to experiment with different formations, so I am not certain if this has been addressed successfully since 3.0 went live.  I do know that 5 and 10 point composite advantages were not equaling significant yards per carry though before it went live. 
1/6/2014 6:05 AM
Posted by timberdrive on 1/5/2014 10:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by noah23 on 1/5/2014 9:28:00 PM (view original):
gameplanning, gameplanning, gameplanning. The default defense against wishbone is almost 100% run
Oh thank God noah is here to correct Bill, because otherwise we may never have figured out why the WB is so bad. IF we didn't have Noah, actually, I dare say we'd all be going blindly through this engine.

I'm not sure if you know this, pal, but winning a handful of CCs at D3 doesn't make you an engine expert. The issue with you isn't the fact that you offer advice or your opinion- it's the way you state it. OBVIOUSLY harris couldn't have found a problem with the engine and the way formations are used, it has to be the fact that he doesn't gameplan well enough. I'm sure you could do so much better if you were given the chance, since you know so much about this engine anyways.

I too have run WB exclusively on some of my teams, and it has never fared worse. And guess what? I throw the ball out of it, too. My run/pass distribution is closer to 60/40, and even the pass struggles. So no, pal, you don't have all the answers.


And LOL
1/6/2014 9:30 AM
Noah, while I appreciate your comment...let me assure you (and all the other guys above who have suggestions on a formation that they do not use), I have used every combination available and I have the talent to execute it.  Thus far this season I have not thrown a single pass.  My intent is NOT to outthink the SIM.....it is to TEST the WB vs the SIM.

I like to think that I've had a pretty good wishbone attack in the past, not only in Heisman, but also in a couple of other worlds under different IDs and as an offensive coordinator for a couple of other teams.

The issue is that the wishbone, as a formation, has been DECREASED in its effectiveness as a formation.  At the moment, I'm down 6-0 at the half vs another SIM.  I've gained a whopping 79....yep thats right 79 freaking yards while running wide EVERY PLAY.  That is complete BS.

At the moment the engine does not appear to account for the other RBs blocking, or the WR blocking.  Who knows how the offensive line really functions vs the def line and/or linebackers?

I'm truly on the verge of declaring the bone to be DEAD at the upper levels.  I have done a non-scientific poll of coaches who have been using the Bone for a long time and all have the same opinion.  If not dead, it is vastly underperforming.
1/6/2014 10:15 AM
One of the things I noticed while testing in beta (take with a grain of salt - one team with only 1 year of human recruited talent at Notre Dame) is that inside runs were slightly more effective. I tested by running 100 simulations against my own team to control offense and defensive settings. Outside runs had a materially higher stuff percentage and ended up with a lower YPC. I also noticed that when I changed the run / pass % on my defense, the results changed significantly, more than I expected as the run% mix on D went down. I tried a couple different scenarios and did not find a mix of in/out or blocking combos that significantly improved results against a 100% run defense.
1/6/2014 10:31 AM
Dear GD. Some unsolicited advice to ignore. If you are going to roll out half-baked programming coupled with nonexistent customer service, provide the paying customers a free beta-type practice game feature so we can experiment and answer our own questions.
1/6/2014 10:37 AM
For 3.1 oriole should rename the game "rugby pitch dynasty." Because the forward pass is dead.
1/6/2014 12:58 PM
Not necessarily colinhtucker, I just broke all sorts of records last season with my " Air Colorado" team in Yost D-3. So it's not so much as if you can it's more so how you can and for some reason the same scheme doesn't work across the different divisions.
1/6/2014 1:50 PM
Well I guess one way to look at it is it maybe realistic.  How long has it been since the wishbone has been effectively ran in D-1 in real life lol.  But seriously and my opinions dont carry alot of weight since ive only played 4 seasons so far.  Do you guys think the TE and FB position are being undervalued in the blocking equation.  Again im a newbie but this season I just finished I would have thought my outside running game would have been more effective than it was given the blocking TEs and FB that I have.  Plus my RB had over 80 elus. and pretty good speed.  I thought going in to the season that some games I would absolutely roll over some of the less talented teams but that never really happened.  I do think that formation IQ plays a bigger role in 3.0.  What do the veterans think?
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