2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

You should ask John Wetteland that question. The two most signature ab's in Mariners history, granted that's not saying a lot, were both Edgar sticking it to the Ysnkees, in clutch playoff situations.
2/13/2014 8:55 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/13/2014 8:46:00 AM (view original):

"GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!!!" or "walk me, please".

Which of those do you want on your team with the game on the line?

please provide evidence that Edgar ever took the "walk me, please" approach. I'll even accept comments form pitchers he faced that said he was not aggressive at the plate, that we went up there with the idea of looking for a walk. Of course the 300/400/500 slash line suggests otherwise...unless you think the obp of .400+ should be lower for all middle of the order hitters...which seems to be what you are arguing.
2/13/2014 9:49 AM
I didn't miss much in the few pages I missed.
 
"please provide evidence that Edgar ever took the "walk me, please" approach." - This.

I fully expect Mikewrg to bring up the argument of "Jeff Bagwell walked too much" when HOF voting discussions rolls around next year.  Because there's just as much evidence to Bagwell being too patient in big spots as Edgar.  Or almost every other elite slugger, ever.

It's a biz argument.  Sad.

2/13/2014 9:57 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/13/2014 8:46:00 AM (view original):

"GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!!!" or "walk me, please".

Which of those do you want on your team with the game on the line?

Hahahaha.  Obviously Edgar is "walk me please." Because....um....<looking for reasons>...
2/13/2014 9:58 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 2/13/2014 8:46:00 AM (view original):

"GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!!!" or "walk me, please".

Which of those do you want on your team with the game on the line?

What does that have to do with Edgar Martinez?
2/13/2014 10:12 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/13/2014 10:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 2/13/2014 8:46:00 AM (view original):

"GIVE ME THE DAMN BALL!!!" or "walk me, please".

Which of those do you want on your team with the game on the line?

What does that have to do with Edgar Martinez?
What hitter ever says "Give me the damn ball"? Wouldn't the pitcher be trying to hit the batter then? Or if he is tossing it too him, I would think it likely to be out of the strike zone. So perhaps, Give me the damn ball, is just a more macho tecwrg way of saying "walk me please".

Perhaps what tec meant to say was, "Please throw me a pitch I can do something with (doesn't even have to be a strike...maybe an outside pitch that can be driven the other way.

Now, I understand a pitcher saying, "Give me the damn ball"...or a basketball player, a running back or a receiver. Perhaps tecwrg was confused...or just made a mistake.

2/13/2014 10:21 AM
I always give credit to Mike and tec. They are bulldogs when it comes to internet arguments. Granted, they are retarded bulldogs that have a hold of their own nuts and wont let go, but they are bulldogs nonetheless.
2/13/2014 3:30 PM
<<He's getting worse, too, in terms of his approach.  Consistently worse.  Last year he set career highs not only in swing rate, but also in swing rate on balls outside the strike zone.  According to Baseball Info Solutions, Jones swung at 59% of pitches last season.  Only 42% of the pitches thrown to him were in the strike zone.  His swing rate on pitches out of the zone was 44.9%.  Davis, by contrast, swung at 35.7% of pitches out of the zone.  Miggy swung at 34%.  Mike Trout swung at an incredible 24.2% of balls thrown outside the strike zone.>>

Above post from another thread....

MikeT would undoubtedly say that Trout would be a better hitter and help his team more if he would start swinging at more of those pitches out of the strike zone.

3/15/2014 9:03 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Well, you seem to be compartmentalizing my argument.  

1.  I think he played long enough and I think he had a nice run of "peak years."    HOF eligible.
2.  He was a pretty good hitter but, unfortunately, he didn't play the field.   That's a mark in the bad column.
3.  He was a 3-4-5 hitter but, IMO, he walked a great deal.   Was he pitched around?  Unlikely with A-Rod and Griffey in the line-up.  Bad, IMO.
4.  It's not like when he swung, he made connection.   He struck out once every 6 AB.   Bad.
5.  We're speculating but we seem to agree he became a DH to lessen the risk of injury.  Bad.

All in all, he was a pretty good hitter.  Maybe even really good.   But he wasn't dominant at the plate during his peak and he didn't play the field.   That's just no HOF material to me.
Edgar walked too much BUMP
11/10/2017 5:26 PM
BL just grabs his ankles and says give it to me!
11/10/2017 8:34 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 2/7/2014 12:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Well, you seem to be compartmentalizing my argument.  

1.  I think he played long enough and I think he had a nice run of "peak years."    HOF eligible.
2.  He was a pretty good hitter but, unfortunately, he didn't play the field.   That's a mark in the bad column.
3.  He was a 3-4-5 hitter but, IMO, he walked a great deal.   Was he pitched around?  Unlikely with A-Rod and Griffey in the line-up.  Bad, IMO.
4.  It's not like when he swung, he made connection.   He struck out once every 6 AB.   Bad.
5.  We're speculating but we seem to agree he became a DH to lessen the risk of injury.  Bad.

All in all, he was a pretty good hitter.  Maybe even really good.   But he wasn't dominant at the plate during his peak and he didn't play the field.   That's just no HOF material to me.
3) Not making outs is a good thing. Not bad.
4) Who cares? An out is an out.
5) Agreed.

He was very dominant. Probably the best hitter in the AL in 1995 and among the top 5 in 1992, 1996, and 1997, which is pretty good considering his career overlapped Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Frank Thomas, and Manny Ramirez, four of the greatest hitters of all time.
OH!!! The old "an out is an out" argument surfaces again!!!
11/14/2017 3:37 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2017 5:26:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/7/2014 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Well, you seem to be compartmentalizing my argument.  

1.  I think he played long enough and I think he had a nice run of "peak years."    HOF eligible.
2.  He was a pretty good hitter but, unfortunately, he didn't play the field.   That's a mark in the bad column.
3.  He was a 3-4-5 hitter but, IMO, he walked a great deal.   Was he pitched around?  Unlikely with A-Rod and Griffey in the line-up.  Bad, IMO.
4.  It's not like when he swung, he made connection.   He struck out once every 6 AB.   Bad.
5.  We're speculating but we seem to agree he became a DH to lessen the risk of injury.  Bad.

All in all, he was a pretty good hitter.  Maybe even really good.   But he wasn't dominant at the plate during his peak and he didn't play the field.   That's just no HOF material to me.
Edgar walked too much BUMP
And he won 2 batting titles!
11/14/2017 6:34 PM
Hey MikeT23, did these players walk too much for your taste?
Rank Player (yrs, age) Bases on Balls Bats
1. Barry Bonds (22) 2558 L
2. Rickey Henderson+ (25) 2190 R
3. Babe Ruth+ (22) 2062 L
4. Ted Williams+ (19) 2021 L
5. Joe Morgan+ (22) 1865 L
6. Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 1845 L
7. Jim Thome (22) 1747 L
8. Mickey Mantle+ (18) 1733 B
9. Mel Ott+ (22) 1708 L
10. Frank Thomas+ (19) 1667 R
11/14/2017 6:36 PM
Thome hit over 600 homers. He probably would have gotten to 700 if he just took the damn bat off his shoulder.
11/14/2017 8:47 PM
Posted by Jtpsops on 11/14/2017 8:47:00 PM (view original):
Thome hit over 600 homers. He probably would have gotten to 700 if he just took the damn bat off his shoulder.
Should be a 1st ballot HOFer in 2 months. Going to be a big class this year of at least 4 players, Chipper, Thome, Hoffman, and Vlad!
11/15/2017 2:03 PM
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2015 baseball HOF ballot. Topic

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