All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Opening Day.....
3/25/2014 11:58 AM
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/25/2014 11:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:19:00 AM (view original):
To me, the argument against these games is the disservice it is to existing fans of the teams involved (especially the team that has to count them as home games) - I think the impact on overall interest in the game in North America is pretty much neutral.
No, it's not a disservice to the fans, it's a disservice to itself.   MLB owes the fans nothing.   If they want to play the entire season in foreign countries at 3 AM EST, it certainly can.   But, if you want people to pay attention, you have to give them a reason.    They didn't get a lot of eyes on the two games that kicked off their season. 
The last sentence is a given, I just think that sounds bad on paper but really doesn't amount to anything in practice.  I don't think there are going to be appreciably fewer eyes on baseball in North America next week than there would have been if the DBacks and Dodgers were opening up in LA.  So, if the trade off is getting a ton of new Australian eyes on MLB last weekend, then I see it as a worthwhile investment for MLB.

None of this is to say that they shouldn't be doing more to grow the game in the US, I just don't see the the goals as incompatible.
I guess I can't say it any clearer than this.    When the season kicks off, it seems like you'd want your fanbase paying attention.   I've already said you're obviously from the "Whatever.  There are 14 more opening days" group.   Which is fine.   I just think there are limited opportunities to be the "big deal" in sports.  I think MLB missed a chance. 
3/25/2014 12:01 PM
Or, to put it another way, if they're not selling the first "bottle" of their product to me, why should I think future "bottles" will be something I want?

NASCAR has killed their fanbase by trying to grow their product(taking races from small towns in the South and moving them to CA/TX/NV) but even they make a huge deal of their first race.   And they have a long *** season too.
3/25/2014 12:12 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/25/2014 11:35:00 AM (view original):

Each team was home for one of the two games.  So AZ and LA only lost one potential home date.  Or, the equivalent of what used to be a scheduled doubleheader.

My guess is that the lost home revenue was at least partially offset by the merchandising of Dodger and DBack apparel.  For all we know, MLB may have kicked back some money to both teams for the inconvenience of sacrificing a home date and having to go the Australia as well.

I'm sure the teams themselves are taken care of from a revenue perspective.  My point was more about making it harder for fans of the teams to see their first games.  I guess I did also throw in there being less games for them to go to, but with 81 to start with, I'll concede that particular point was pretty weak.

I didn't check and see how it was being handled this time - at least one of the times the A's went, they were the home team in both games.  And I'm sure they actually came out ahead on that deal revenue-wise.
I don't think it's much different if an east coast team opens their season on the west coast with a night game.  As is happening with the Cleveland Indians on Monday, opening their season with a 10pm ET game in Oakland.

If 'm an Indians fan and I have to get up for work at 5am on Tuesday morning, I'm probably not watching much beyond the fist two inning or two of the game, if anything at all.



3/25/2014 12:21 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/25/2014 11:58:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/25/2014 11:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:19:00 AM (view original):
To me, the argument against these games is the disservice it is to existing fans of the teams involved (especially the team that has to count them as home games) - I think the impact on overall interest in the game in North America is pretty much neutral.
No, it's not a disservice to the fans, it's a disservice to itself.   MLB owes the fans nothing.   If they want to play the entire season in foreign countries at 3 AM EST, it certainly can.   But, if you want people to pay attention, you have to give them a reason.    They didn't get a lot of eyes on the two games that kicked off their season. 
The last sentence is a given, I just think that sounds bad on paper but really doesn't amount to anything in practice.  I don't think there are going to be appreciably fewer eyes on baseball in North America next week than there would have been if the DBacks and Dodgers were opening up in LA.  So, if the trade off is getting a ton of new Australian eyes on MLB last weekend, then I see it as a worthwhile investment for MLB.

None of this is to say that they shouldn't be doing more to grow the game in the US, I just don't see the the goals as incompatible.
I guess I can't say it any clearer than this.    When the season kicks off, it seems like you'd want your fanbase paying attention.   I've already said you're obviously from the "Whatever.  There are 14 more opening days" group.   Which is fine.   I just think there are limited opportunities to be the "big deal" in sports.  I think MLB missed a chance. 
And I guess I don't see it as a missed chance, because I don't think MLB has any chance to be a "big deal" with individual games apart from the larger Opening Day/Week, and I don't think this will make Opening Day/Week less of a big deal.

But, yes, we're definitely in agree to disagree territory at this point.
3/25/2014 12:24 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/25/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:48:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/25/2014 11:35:00 AM (view original):

Each team was home for one of the two games.  So AZ and LA only lost one potential home date.  Or, the equivalent of what used to be a scheduled doubleheader.

My guess is that the lost home revenue was at least partially offset by the merchandising of Dodger and DBack apparel.  For all we know, MLB may have kicked back some money to both teams for the inconvenience of sacrificing a home date and having to go the Australia as well.

I'm sure the teams themselves are taken care of from a revenue perspective.  My point was more about making it harder for fans of the teams to see their first games.  I guess I did also throw in there being less games for them to go to, but with 81 to start with, I'll concede that particular point was pretty weak.

I didn't check and see how it was being handled this time - at least one of the times the A's went, they were the home team in both games.  And I'm sure they actually came out ahead on that deal revenue-wise.
I don't think it's much different if an east coast team opens their season on the west coast with a night game.  As is happening with the Cleveland Indians on Monday, opening their season with a 10pm ET game in Oakland.

If 'm an Indians fan and I have to get up for work at 5am on Tuesday morning, I'm probably not watching much beyond the fist two inning or two of the game, if anything at all.



Probably true.  So the whole argument is pretty weak.  Which I'm okay with given that I'm actually not against playing these games.
3/25/2014 1:13 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 12:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/25/2014 11:58:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:45:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/25/2014 11:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by AlCheez on 3/25/2014 11:19:00 AM (view original):
To me, the argument against these games is the disservice it is to existing fans of the teams involved (especially the team that has to count them as home games) - I think the impact on overall interest in the game in North America is pretty much neutral.
No, it's not a disservice to the fans, it's a disservice to itself.   MLB owes the fans nothing.   If they want to play the entire season in foreign countries at 3 AM EST, it certainly can.   But, if you want people to pay attention, you have to give them a reason.    They didn't get a lot of eyes on the two games that kicked off their season. 
The last sentence is a given, I just think that sounds bad on paper but really doesn't amount to anything in practice.  I don't think there are going to be appreciably fewer eyes on baseball in North America next week than there would have been if the DBacks and Dodgers were opening up in LA.  So, if the trade off is getting a ton of new Australian eyes on MLB last weekend, then I see it as a worthwhile investment for MLB.

None of this is to say that they shouldn't be doing more to grow the game in the US, I just don't see the the goals as incompatible.
I guess I can't say it any clearer than this.    When the season kicks off, it seems like you'd want your fanbase paying attention.   I've already said you're obviously from the "Whatever.  There are 14 more opening days" group.   Which is fine.   I just think there are limited opportunities to be the "big deal" in sports.  I think MLB missed a chance. 
And I guess I don't see it as a missed chance, because I don't think MLB has any chance to be a "big deal" with individual games apart from the larger Opening Day/Week, and I don't think this will make Opening Day/Week less of a big deal.

But, yes, we're definitely in agree to disagree territory at this point.
This may be true.   Maybe baseball can't be a "big deal" outside of it's parochial boundaries.   

That said, LA is a pretty big area.  And they are one of the "marquee" teams in baseball right now.   Maybe it should have been Seattle vs Houston instead of a name team.
3/25/2014 9:38 PM
I just find it utterly hilarious that Mike rips on MLB's "marketing", and then makes it abundantly clear he has no clue what marketing is.

MLB is doing a great job of marketing, as Al Cheez has explained. Those two games were almost a "gift" for Australia fans and something exclusive for that market. And making the games count makes it even more special for fans down under who get to watch the games live. I think we can all appreciate the difference between watching a ST game and watching a regular season game. It makes a difference.

And then we still get "Opening Day" here in NA. I'll go back to my restaurant example. New restaurants traditionally have their Grand Opening a week or two after they open. Customers don't say "Nah, I ain't gonna go - they already opened last week, lyin' bastards!".

It's called...*gasp*...marketing.
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