All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Taking over another Coaches' team vs. DIY
5/11/2014 9:58 AM
How do you guys feel about taking over another Coaches' established team vs. a "DIY" build/rebuild? I recently finished a PIT F4 run with a West Virginia Wesleyan team in D2 Knight that was made up mostly of another Coaches' players (I recruited 6 of 'em). I had spent 5 seasons in D1 at Ohio University and had fun building them up, but knew that a Big 6 job was out of my reach, so I returned to D2 Charleston, where I had coached for 25 seasons. I took over there for a Coach that moved up to D1 as well. In the simplest meaning of the definition, did I "cherry-pick" both of those squads? Since I went from Charleston-to-WVWC in consecutive seasons I'm thinking I did. But I also think it's a shame that two successful programs go without a human Coach, so it's a toss up. What do you guys think? Do you like a DIY job or continuing a programs winning ways with another Coaches players?

5/11/2014 10:01 AM
It hurts my winning percentage, but I really enjoy a rebuild. But different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes. My only problem comes when a guy who cherrypicks a couple of good jobs starts bragging about his winning percentage.

I also agree that it's always a shame to see a highly successful program sit without a human coach. It's one reason I undertook the Nova rebuild that's proving pretty difficult.
5/11/2014 10:09 AM
Well, it's each coaches preference, but I've been leaning more to rebuilds lately.  I specifically chose UAB in Phelan because it had never had a human coach in all 67 seasons up to the point where I took over, nor had it won a CT or been to PIT or NT.  That interests me.

When I moved up divisions I tended to filter on teams that were successful, but to me it was more important how many open scholarships they had.  I've turned down higher prestige jobs that had 6 open scholarships for example.  I made the Championship game last season with a D3 team I picked up that had 3 remaining players from the prior coach, but I saw that as much his input and building as mine.

For where I am at in the game now, I much prefer picking up a program that has been SIM for awhile.  I was going to say those are tricky to find, but I suppose they really aren't.  But I tend to stay at my teams 10+ seasons, so maybe that affects it.  I sometimes think about trying to move up the D1 ladder at one of my two schools there, but for right now I'd rather stay low D1 and try to build.

I do think it's a shame to see well built programs regress when the SIM runs for a few years, but one of the things I like about the game is that (short of D1) any team can really be built or broken down if a coach wants to.
5/11/2014 1:31 PM (edited)
I hate being a Coach that moves around, but I'm thinking about moving to a team that's been Sim-coached for awhile and try to rebuild it. I appreciate the input, Coaches...I think I knew all along that it was going to be a rebuild-I guess I just wanted to hear some outside thoughts. On to WVIAC, I guess.
5/11/2014 10:28 AM
I generally take over a team with 5+ scholarships so I can mold it my way, quickly. When I take over human coached teams I almost always end up cutting players the other guy recruited because they don't fit my vision.
5/11/2014 11:10 AM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/11/2014 10:28:00 AM (view original):
I generally take over a team with 5+ scholarships so I can mold it my way, quickly. When I take over human coached teams I almost always end up cutting players the other guy recruited because they don't fit my vision.
I try to take over teams with no less than 4 and no more than 6 scholarships open. I made an exception with SHSU and I've regretted it. Had like 9 schollies to fill, and ended up "settling" for some players that I shouldn't have, because I only had scholarship money for 6.
5/11/2014 11:22 AM
I am not scared about that. I filled 8 with 5 this season at Howard Payne in Phelan. I ended up losing a player late to a coach who is smarter than me but I still like my class.

I filled 10 with 6 at Pacific Lutheran (I shouldn't have left) and landed 3 STUDS. The team won 20 games when the 1st class was juniors with the SIM coaching it and made the NT when they were seniors. I think I would have gotten them to the sweet 16.

The total rebuild is a little easier IMO, because you can offer starts like candy.
5/11/2014 11:32 AM
Posted by padgett1547 on 5/11/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
How do you guys feel about taking over another Coaches' established team vs. a "DIY" build/rebuild? I recently finished a PIT F4 run with a West Virginia Wesleyan team in D2 Knight that was made up mostly of another Coaches' players (I recruited 6 of 'em). I had spent 5 seasons in D1 at Ohio University and had fun building them up, but knew that a Big 6 job was out of my reach, so I returned to D2 Charleston, where I had coached for 25 seasons. I took over there for a Coach that moved up to D1 as well. In the simplest meaning of the definition, did I "cherry-pick" both of those squads? Since I went from Charleston-to-WVWC in consecutive seasons I'm thinking I did. But I also think it's a shame that two successful programs go without a human Coach, so it's a toss up. What do you guys think? Do you like a DIY job or continuing a programs winning ways with another Coaches players?

Are you from northern WV or eastern OH? Seems a regional theme to your school choices.
5/11/2014 12:31 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/11/2014 11:22:00 AM (view original):
I am not scared about that. I filled 8 with 5 this season at Howard Payne in Phelan. I ended up losing a player late to a coach who is smarter than me but I still like my class.

I filled 10 with 6 at Pacific Lutheran (I shouldn't have left) and landed 3 STUDS. The team won 20 games when the 1st class was juniors with the SIM coaching it and made the NT when they were seniors. I think I would have gotten them to the sweet 16.

The total rebuild is a little easier IMO, because you can offer starts like candy.
wait.....  theres a coach smarter than you?
5/11/2014 12:54 PM
Posted by ettaexpress on 5/11/2014 11:32:00 AM (view original):
Posted by padgett1547 on 5/11/2014 9:58:00 AM (view original):
How do you guys feel about taking over another Coaches' established team vs. a "DIY" build/rebuild? I recently finished a PIT F4 run with a West Virginia Wesleyan team in D2 Knight that was made up mostly of another Coaches' players (I recruited 6 of 'em). I had spent 5 seasons in D1 at Ohio University and had fun building them up, but knew that a Big 6 job was out of my reach, so I returned to D2 Charleston, where I had coached for 25 seasons. I took over there for a Coach that moved up to D1 as well. In the simplest meaning of the definition, did I "cherry-pick" both of those squads? Since I went from Charleston-to-WVWC in consecutive seasons I'm thinking I did. But I also think it's a shame that two successful programs go without a human Coach, so it's a toss up. What do you guys think? Do you like a DIY job or continuing a programs winning ways with another Coaches players?

Are you from northern WV or eastern OH? Seems a regional theme to your school choices.
Good guess, etta!
There is definitely a theme, as I spent my time growing up split between western Ohio and the Morgantown-area of WV. I follow just about every WV team from D3 up to WVU & Marshall. I love "coaching" in the Ohio-WV region...it's my home.
5/11/2014 12:55 PM
i dont think oldave 1.0 ever took anything that was anywhere close to a rebuild.  the first two teams i ever took were not great, but not bad.  in iba i never moved for 40 seasons or whatver.  and in tark i was racing to syracuse so i moved 3 or 4 times and always took the absolute best team i could find.  and in wooden i moved to the best d2 team i could find whihc in that case was pretty much the best d2 team in the country.  oh, lamost forgot,  went back to wooden to get humiliated in upstate d3 power conference... cant recal but i think rochester was Bish when i took them over.   i think that was probably the only program i didnt leave better than when i found it.

after 3 year hiatus, oldave 2.0 decided to try several rebuilds.
 babson in rupp i took for the sole reason that babson is the very worst HD d3 program of all time with only 4 NT wins ever through 700 plus seasons and never been past the second round ever in any world  (unless it happened in the past couple of months)  truth is i dont really see any inherent obstacles to winning at babson,  maybe not the best place, but gotta be a bunch that are harder to recruit from including the aforementioned Rochester.  but, nonetheless, im excited about the prospect of doing something that has never been done before.
simlar story at Johnson C smith in d2 iba and
elms in naismith where we are trying to do an entire conference rebuild.  had to be one of the most pathetic conferences ever and 12 of us got together and are trying to turn it around and create an uberconference.

one of the things i like about taking over pretty good programs, is precisely the thing that my buddy tjoe doesnt like... you get a good collection of players, but they often have very different strengths and weaknesses than you would ordinarily select.  eventually, you flip the roster over and end up with all the types of players that you generally gravitate toward, but, for those first couple of years, you are kind of forced into a little different style and out of your normal comfort zone,  and, since there is good talent there, you are obviously trying to win right awaye

oh, one of my other programs now is whittier which was not a rebuild at all, in fact was very strong,  but whittier, despite something like 15 final 4s and 8 runner ups has never won an NC in any world.  im pretty sure they are the best prgram never to have won an NC.   not sure i will be able to do anything about that... but im trying.
5/11/2014 12:57 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/11/2014 11:22:00 AM (view original):
I am not scared about that. I filled 8 with 5 this season at Howard Payne in Phelan. I ended up losing a player late to a coach who is smarter than me but I still like my class.

I filled 10 with 6 at Pacific Lutheran (I shouldn't have left) and landed 3 STUDS. The team won 20 games when the 1st class was juniors with the SIM coaching it and made the NT when they were seniors. I think I would have gotten them to the sweet 16.

The total rebuild is a little easier IMO, because you can offer starts like candy.
hmmm.  another difference between me and joe....   i really like to hang on to my candy whenever possible.

im almost afraid to ask, joe,  but where exactly are you offering out all this candy so freely?
5/11/2014 1:05 PM
Down by the river! Where else would you?
5/11/2014 1:12 PM
in a van?
5/11/2014 1:32 PM
obvi
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > Taking over another Coaches' team vs. DIY

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