6/11/2014 11:21 PM
Was this an actual league game?  Or an exhibition?
6/11/2014 11:41 PM
nope it was vs sparky.  the live engine would have the same success there.  We were going to test it in some exhibitions.   no one bunts in league games for fear of  melt downs.
6/11/2014 11:47 PM (edited)
arv, if there is no "glitch" what is a totally b.s.  play  is being forced to stand and hit into double plays when it's a squeeze bunt situation.  and come on...if it's a 100% glitch (you know how they say the squeeze works 100% of the time)  it wouldn't care about those factors.  
6/12/2014 12:26 AM
I do not think sparky and the live game play the same.  The computer AI changes something.  Just like I have ZERO doubt that the live game and the sim are different engines. 
6/12/2014 10:49 AM (edited)
The format and logic seems identical.  It's just like someone leaving your live game.  And a programmer who designs these would easily use the same subroutine for a squeeze bunt every where he could.  It makes no sense to rewrite the logic for slightly different formats.  It could happen, but why?  We'll test it with live exhibition games too.  Thanks for your input
6/12/2014 10:50 AM
And you've all made good points, but remember all this legend of squeezes always work probably happened because the opponent NEVER sees when it fails.  They don't know there was a squeeze when t he result is pop out, ground out (guy on third doesnt score), line out etc.   so these opponents assume it works every time.  I know it didn't work for me every time.
6/12/2014 11:00 AM
The big glitch is that on a bunt with a runner at third, the runner almost always goes home, which is clearly unrealistic. The toughest part of the debate is first-and-third with less than two out and the pitcher or a weak hitter up; as the sim works now, there is no way to drop a bunt, move the runner to second, and have the runner hold at third most of the time. In real life, the most likely result of the play is the runner at first advancing, the batter out at first, and the runner at third holding. That happens 1% of the time in WIS.

On other bunts, I disagree with the premise that people leave the infield back to improve their chances of a double play because the squeeze is such a hot-button issue. In  my case, I leave the infield back because I'm only paying a little attention to the game, working or reading while I play. It's not like MLB where our full-time job is to watch every pitch. We can debate whether taking advantage of that is sporting. I understand the tough-for-you argument, but also believe that most players would rather have me play 12 games in a night and only pay partial attention vs. playing 2 full-focus games on the same night.

Love the attempt to quantify the success rate. As arvid noted above to be meaningful a study would have to include all kinds of batters and runners (to a few here, all squeezes are outrages; to most who oppose the bunt, there's a difference between Mark Belanger bunting home Ozzie Smith compared to Frank Howard bunting home Jason Varitek. My belief from playing 40000+ live games is that the runner's speed does not affect the chances of success (I'm also convinced that HOLD has zero effect on stolen-base attempts, and only impacts double-play chances and taking extra bases on a hit). The batter's speed does seem to have some effect on the success rate.
6/12/2014 11:11 AM
Also i did not threaten your kids sjh your moron 
6/12/2014 11:40 AM
Posted by sjh0825 on 6/12/2014 10:49:00 AM (view original):
The format and logic seems identical.  It's just like someone leaving your live game.  And a programmer who designs these would easily use the same subroutine for a squeeze bunt every where he could.  It makes no sense to rewrite the logic for slightly different formats.  It could happen, but why?  We'll test it with live exhibition games too.  Thanks for your input
I'm highly skeptical to whether live received the same updates that regular sim has received.
6/12/2014 11:48 AM
josh the half paying attention part of the infield back is a great reason people are so opposed to the squeeze.  It is a whole different issue and I don't agree we should take more double plays so others can relax.   I don't think we'll agree on that one.  But I respect your right to feel that way.
6/12/2014 1:35 PM
That's why I say I understand others saying tough, and it's why I'll usually play people whom I know bunt only when I can pay attention, at least for important games. I do think that's far more common than someone actively deciding not to bring the IF in to increase DP chances. Anyone who would do that is likely to support bunting (both increase the chance of winning at the risk of alienating opponents).

Too bad that back when WIS still had programmers no one fixed things to include a safety squeeze, which would eliminate 90% of the animosity over the bunt. If we could have Pedro bunt the runner at first to second, while the runner at third watches for the occasional opportunity to go home, we'd be set. We should have to use the hit and run for it to be a suicide squeeze, with the increased risk of a pickoff or caught stealing. The glitch is that we don't need to H&R and get the benefit of the runner going without the risk. If you do a broader experiment, I'd be very curious to see how often the runner holds at third without H&R on.
6/12/2014 1:40 PM
We know that there have been changes made to the Live engine that were different from the sim engine. In one instance I pointed out an error (coincidentally with bunts, but in this case about 40-speed runners scoring with the IF in and throws going to first) and they fixed it, saying it was missed when making some changes to the Live engine. I recall another glitch in Live that someone (gonzos? lloyd1955?) pointed out that they thanked him for noticing, and again it was something just affecting Live. No doubt they started out the same, but once they were used for different purposes it's highly unlikely that every possible change made to one was accurately reflected in the other. Especially in the last couple of years as support became gradually less supportive.
6/12/2014 1:59 PM (edited)
I hear you.  I'm not saying they are perfect by no means.   I'm just saying the live play vs sparky is probably the same or very close to the live play vs an opponent.  I may be wrong.  We'll still be testing the live.  thanks
6/12/2014 2:13 PM
remember all this is about is disproving the premise  you shoudn't squeeze because it works 100% of the time.   that is not true and people have other reasons they don't like the squeeze too.  read above.
6/12/2014 2:15 PM
what about part about me threatening your kids how about that is that true no
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