But, if you want, we can use WAR. Beltre's is already higher than Jeter's with 4 or 5 years left to play.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 8:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 7:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/23/2014 9:54:00 PM (view original):
Here's the list of guys with 450/3000

Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Eddie Murray
Stan Musial
Rafael Palmeiro
Dave Winfield
Carl Yastrzemski

If you add Beltre to that list in 2018ish, I don't see how he doesn't get in. Especially when you consider the fact that he's been a great defensive 3rd baseman on top of the offense.

I thought that you and all your new-age advanced stats eschewed the tradition old "counting" stats and were all about the advanced "rate" stats.

Yet here you are, counting home runs and hits and ignoring OPS+.

I thought we had also moved past the point where there are certain "magic numbers" for compiled stats that get you into the HOF.  No?

I mentioned his OPS+ in the very first post of the thread.

Thanks for playing.

So is an OPS+ of 115 your new minimum standard for the HOF?

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 9:04:00 AM (view original):
But, if you want, we can use WAR. Beltre's is already higher than Jeter's with 4 or 5 years left to play.

There it is:

WAR, ************!!!!!

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 9:04:00 AM (view original):
But, if you want, we can use WAR. Beltre's is already higher than Jeter's with 4 or 5 years left to play.

So in your opinion, who has a better case for the HOF?

Beltre or Jeter?

LOL.  That' a retarded argument that even BL is too smart to enter into. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/24/2014 9:18:00 AM (view original):
LOL.  That' a retarded argument that even BL is too smart to enter into. 

Ha ha ha!!  You found a way to say "BL" and "smart" in the same sentence.

Well played!

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 9:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 8:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 7:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/23/2014 9:54:00 PM (view original):
Here's the list of guys with 450/3000

Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Eddie Murray
Stan Musial
Rafael Palmeiro
Dave Winfield
Carl Yastrzemski

If you add Beltre to that list in 2018ish, I don't see how he doesn't get in. Especially when you consider the fact that he's been a great defensive 3rd baseman on top of the offense.

I thought that you and all your new-age advanced stats eschewed the tradition old "counting" stats and were all about the advanced "rate" stats.

Yet here you are, counting home runs and hits and ignoring OPS+.

I thought we had also moved past the point where there are certain "magic numbers" for compiled stats that get you into the HOF.  No?

I mentioned his OPS+ in the very first post of the thread.

Thanks for playing.

So is an OPS+ of 115 your new minimum standard for the HOF?

Do we need to set a minimum? Or should we consider all players on a case by case basis?

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 9:08:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 9:04:00 AM (view original):
But, if you want, we can use WAR. Beltre's is already higher than Jeter's with 4 or 5 years left to play.

So in your opinion, who has a better case for the HOF?

Beltre or Jeter?

I think their cases are pretty similar. Jeter got on base more, Beltre has more power. Jeter's OPS+ is 116, Beltre's is 115. Jeter played short poorly, Beltre played third exceptionally. Beltre's WAR is 74.5, Jeter's is 72.1.

I'd give a small edge to Jeter right now but if Beltre puts up another 2 or 3 years similar to this year and last year, I think it might give him the edge.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 10:03:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 9:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/24/2014 8:55:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 7:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/23/2014 9:54:00 PM (view original):
Here's the list of guys with 450/3000

Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Eddie Murray
Stan Musial
Rafael Palmeiro
Dave Winfield
Carl Yastrzemski

If you add Beltre to that list in 2018ish, I don't see how he doesn't get in. Especially when you consider the fact that he's been a great defensive 3rd baseman on top of the offense.

I thought that you and all your new-age advanced stats eschewed the tradition old "counting" stats and were all about the advanced "rate" stats.

Yet here you are, counting home runs and hits and ignoring OPS+.

I thought we had also moved past the point where there are certain "magic numbers" for compiled stats that get you into the HOF.  No?

I mentioned his OPS+ in the very first post of the thread.

Thanks for playing.

So is an OPS+ of 115 your new minimum standard for the HOF?

Do we need to set a minimum? Or should we consider all players on a case by case basis?

You're the "stats tell me everything I need to know" guy.  You tell me.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/24/2014 9:18:00 AM (view original):
LOL.  That' a retarded argument that even BL is too smart to enter into. 

BL proves you wrong.

Gold glove quality defender at 3rd base, 3000 hits, 3rd most homers of any 3rd baseman? It was said earlier, but people forget that 3rd base isn't really an "offensive" position.  He's an obvious vote if he continues this pace.

Posted by tecwrg on 7/24/2014 10:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/24/2014 9:18:00 AM (view original):
LOL.  That' a retarded argument that even BL is too smart to enter into. 

BL proves you wrong.

Figures.  A "Beltre over Jeter for HOF" is the sort of dumbassery that will elicit a response.    And that's why he created his username.   My bad.

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/24/2014 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Gold glove quality defender at 3rd base, 3000 hits, 3rd most homers of any 3rd baseman? It was said earlier, but people forget that 3rd base isn't really an "offensive" position.  He's an obvious vote if he continues this pace.

Please list the "offensive" positions in order of "offense produced".

Posted by burnsy483 on 7/24/2014 10:15:00 AM (view original):
Gold glove quality defender at 3rd base, 3000 hits, 3rd most homers of any 3rd baseman? It was said earlier, but people forget that 3rd base isn't really an "offensive" position.  He's an obvious vote if he continues this pace.

This