All Forums > SimLeague Baseball > MLB > Adrian Beltre
7/30/2014 8:18 AM
I see 5, maybe 6, on the 2015 ballot that I think are HOFers.     Piazza, Clemens, Bonds, Johnson, Martinez and Smoltz is the borderline guy.  I'd love to hear how many BL sees.   Vegas has the over/under at 13.5.
7/30/2014 10:21 AM
I'd go 13.

Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Schilling
Bagwell
Mussina
Trammell
Edgar Martinez
Raines
Biggio
McGwire
PIazza
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7/30/2014 10:31 AM
Schilling was better than Smoltz. To me, it's not even close.

Smoltz is borderline for me.
7/30/2014 10:38 AM
Actually, it's closer than I thought. I'd put Schilling in the top 20-25, Smoltz in the top 30-40.
7/30/2014 10:39 AM
I'd consider voting for Smoltz.
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7/30/2014 11:31 AM
He also believes that Kenny Lofton and Scott Rolen should be in HOF conversations.

In short, it's because he's an idiot with respect to baseball.

7/30/2014 11:47 AM
Posted by The Taint on 7/30/2014 11:01:00 AM (view original):
Curious as to why you think Schilling was better.
Their raw numbers are pretty similar, I think it comes down to peak. Schilling had a higher and longer peak. I think the years spent as a reliever is an argument against Smoltz, not in his favor.

Schilling: 3261 IP; 3.46 ERA; 3116 K; 127 ERA+; 1.14 WHIP; 80 WAR
Smoltz :   3473 IP; 3.33 ERA; 3084 K; 125 ERA+; 1.18 WHIP; 66 WAR

Schilling: 4 seasons as a starter with an ERA+ over 150
Smoltz: 0

Schilling: 7 seasons SP over 140 ERA+
Smoltz: 4

Schilling: 13 SP over 120 ERA+
Smoltz: 10 

Smoltz had some really great years as a reliever, specifically 2003, and I'm not ignoring that. But I don't believe that a relief pitcher throwing 65 IP is as valuable as a starter throwing 220.
7/30/2014 11:48 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 7/30/2014 11:31:00 AM (view original):
He also believes that Kenny Lofton and Scott Rolen should be in HOF conversations.

In short, it's because he's an idiot with respect to baseball.

I don't see why you would automatically eliminate someone from the discussion. Rolen had a great career. I wouldn't necessarily vote for him, but I'd have to take a long look.
7/30/2014 12:04 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 7/30/2014 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 7/30/2014 11:01:00 AM (view original):
Curious as to why you think Schilling was better.
Their raw numbers are pretty similar, I think it comes down to peak. Schilling had a higher and longer peak. I think the years spent as a reliever is an argument against Smoltz, not in his favor.

Schilling: 3261 IP; 3.46 ERA; 3116 K; 127 ERA+; 1.14 WHIP; 80 WAR
Smoltz :   3473 IP; 3.33 ERA; 3084 K; 125 ERA+; 1.18 WHIP; 66 WAR

Schilling: 4 seasons as a starter with an ERA+ over 150
Smoltz: 0

Schilling: 7 seasons SP over 140 ERA+
Smoltz: 4

Schilling: 13 SP over 120 ERA+
Smoltz: 10 

Smoltz had some really great years as a reliever, specifically 2003, and I'm not ignoring that. But I don't believe that a relief pitcher throwing 65 IP is as valuable as a starter throwing 220.
For reference:

Blyleven:4970 IP; 3.31. ERA; 3701 K; 118 ERA+; 1.20 WHIP; 96 WAR 
Glavine: 4413 IP; 3.54 ERA; 2607 K; 118 ERA+; 1.31 WHIP; 74 WAR
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7/30/2014 2:02 PM
Anyone watch NYY/TEX last night?  They ran a clip of Beltre freaking out any time someone touch his head.  Funny stuff.
7/30/2014 2:34 PM
You've never seen those clips before? That's a running gag. I'm starting to think you're the one who doesn't watch non-Yankee baseball.
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