NEW: What If Jubilee Prog League FULL ! Topic

The idea here is based on the ancient practice of the Jubilee Year: every 7th year in ancient societies slaves were freed, debts were cancelled and land restored to its original owner.

This league will begin in 1944 (for reasons explained below) and we will begin with original teams and their actual RL rosters. We will play for 7 seasons, drafting players as we wish, making trades we want, but after 6 years of play, on the 7th season we will begin again with the actual RL rosters of that year and start again to reshape and manage our What If teams from that point.   Any gaps in roster numbers can be made up by drafting any 200K player in the database that owners choose to use. 

Each Jubilee Year (the 7th year) in other words, all players will revert to the actual RL team they played with that season and our rosters will move ahead from that, all previous team history of drafting and trading rendered no longer relevant. 


























Example: The New York Yankees will begin with the roster they had in 1944. The owner of that team will then draft players - any players available when it is her or his turn in the draft - and will have them on the team and this will continue through the 1949 season. 

But in 1950 the roster for the New York Yankees (and all other teams) will be the actual roster listed in WIS when that team is downloaded as a historical team. In any case in which a player is listed in WIS for a Jubilee season as having played on more than one team, the player will end up on the team that they began the season with, not necessarily the one they played more games (or had more PA or IP) with that year. 

So the Yankees, unless they are able to draft or trade for Mickey Mantle when he starts in 1951 will not have Mantle until 1956 - the next Jubilee Year in which all players return to the teams they were on that season, when they will have him and unless they then subsequently trade him he will be a Yankees from 1956 on, but not before. Indeed, one reason for the timing of the league start date is to avoid the inevitable Yankees-Giants advantages that come with the 1951 additions of Mantle and Mays. However, there was no way to work this so that Koufax' best years were also unavailable to the Dodgers, but hopefully teams through drafting and trading and strategy will be able to match the Dodgers in other areas to overcome that LA advantage. 

In other words, this league allows for the best of both worlds: real What If play starting with real rosters but then managing as best you can to do better. 

There will therefore be no drafts of new or unaffiliated players in the every-7th Jubilee seasons. 

There will be no inaugural league draft: we will start play as soon as the 16th owner is signed up. 

But we will be drafting players in the non-Jubilee seasons in between (and so there is a What If quality here). 

Draft position will be in the order of the Real World (NOT our league results) W-L records of the seasons in question - the season drafted players will play in, NOT the one just completed (thus our first draft will be based on the standings in the real world of 1945) -  with the team with the worst Real World (Not our league) record going first and that with the best record going last. 

THERE IS ONE EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE: no team may have the first pick either in the overall draft nor from their own league for more than two seasons in a row. So in any season in which the same team came in last place in either the AL or NL, the 7th place team will pick first from that league and depending on the W-L record of the worst team from the other league will be placed accordingly in the overall draft order. The 6th place team from that league that season will pick second from that league (again where that is overall for the 16 teams depends on the W-L records overall for that RL season) and then will come the 5th place team from that league and only after that will the 8th place team pick (when we reach the expansion era this will be applicable but with the teams in each league ranked according to overall record and again any team that was the worst overall for 3 straight seasons will pick first from that league's team two years running but the third time will be the fourth from that league to pick and again be ranked overall in the draft order according to the overall W-L records from that RL season). 

So tanking is completely pointless - your team's draft position is as fixed as one's destiny in any Calvinist predestination. 

Drafting strategy will of course be transformed by the Jubilee Year: players with 6 really good years will be at a premium, lifetime stars less so, those with a four-year waiting period before they become really good will also not be so desirable. It will be interesting. 

How we will decide who gets what team: 

I will pick my team 13th, after 12 owners have signed up. 

Owners can announce the teams they want when they sign up. Here is a chance to manage your favorite team for decades and do any of the What If managing you always dreamed of. 

Sign up now and we can start right away ! 



8/11/2014 12:04 PM (edited)
Here are the results of 1945: our first draft - AFTER our first season of 1944, will mean that the Phillies pick first and the Athletics second, the Cubs last. 

Final MLB Standings 1945

  Home Away
Detroit 88-65 .575 ---- 50-26 38-39
Wash Senators 87-67 .565 1.5 46-31 41-36
StL Browns 81-70 .536 6.0 47-27 34-43
NY Yankees 81-71 .533 6.5 48-28 33-43
Cleveland 73-72 .503 11.0 44-33 29-39
Chi White Sox 71-78 .477 15.0 44-29 27-49
Boston 71-83 .461 17.5 42-35 29-48
Philadelphia As 52-98 .347 34.5 39-35 13-63
  Home Away
Chi Cubs 98-56 .636 ---- 49-26 49-30
St Louis 95-59 .617 3.0 48-29 47-30
Brooklyn 87-67 .565 11.0 48-30 39-37
Pittsburgh 82-72 .532 16.0 45-34 37-38
NY Giants 78-74 .513 19.0 47-30 31-44
Bos Braves 67-85 .441 30.0 36-38 31-47
Cincinnati 61-93 .396 37.0 36-41 25-52
Philadelphia 46-108 .299 52.0 22-55 24-53
8/20/2014 3:46 PM (edited)
Our second draft will be before the 1946 season and draft order based on the results of 1946 in the real world. So in that draft the Athletics will draft first and the Red Sox last. 

Final MLB Standings 1946

  Home Away
Boston 104-50 .675 ---- 61-16 43-34
Detroit 92-62 .597 12.0 48-30 44-32
NY Yankees 87-67 .565 17.0 47-30 40-37
Wash Senators 76-78 .494 28.0 38-38 38-40
Chi White Sox 74-80 .481 30.0 40-38 34-42
Cleveland 68-86 .442 36.0 36-41 32-45
StL Browns 66-88 .429 38.0 35-41 31-47
Philadelphia As 49-105 .318 55.0 31-46 18-59
  Home Away
St Louis 98-58 .628 ---- 49-29 49-29
Brooklyn 96-60 .615 2.0 56-22 40-38
Chi Cubs 82-71 .536 14.5 44-33 38-38
Bos Braves 81-72 .529 15.5 45-31 36-41
Philadelphia 69-85 .448 28.0 41-36 28-49
Cincinnati 67-87 .435 30.0 35-42 32-45
Pittsburgh 63-91 .409 34.0 37-40 26-51
NY Giants 61-93 .396 36.0 38-39 23-54
8/11/2014 12:06 PM
And before the 1947 season the Browns will pick first and the Yankees last:

Final MLB Standings 1947

  Home Away
NY Yankees 97-57 .630 -- 55-22 42-35
Detroit 85-69 .552 12 46-31 39-38
Boston 83-71 .539 14 49-30 34-41
Cleveland 80-74 .519 17 38-39 42-35
Philadelphia As 78-76 .506 19 39-38 39-38
Chi White Sox 70-84 .455 27 32-43 38-41
Wash Senators 64-90 .416 33 36-41 28-49
StL Browns 59-95 .383 38 29-48 30-47
  Home Away
Brooklyn 94-60 .610 -- 52-25 42-35
St Louis 89-65 .578 5 46-31 43-34
Bos Braves 86-68 .558 8 50-27 36-41
NY Giants 81-73 .526 13 45-31 36-42
Cincinnati 73-81 .474 21 42-35 31-46
Chi Cubs 69-85 .448 25 36-43 33-42
Philadelphia 62-92 .403 32 38-38 24-54
Pittsburgh 62-92 .403 32 32-45 30-47
8/11/2014 12:06 PM
I think I'm interested but I'm equally sure that I'm confused. Are you suggesting 72 separate seasons of WIS league play ?
8/11/2014 12:14 PM
Even more than 72 because by the time he gets to 2016  18 actual years will have passed.........meaning he can then add those 18 years to the schedule.
8/11/2014 2:00 PM
Then I guess I'm out. 18 years from now I'll be pushing 90 & I will have either died (but maybe not because I don't like making my wife happy) or babbling into my oatmeal about Chco Carrasquel being a better shortstop than Reese, Rizzutto or Marion & then watching reruns of Gunsmoke while ******* myself.
8/11/2014 2:28 PM
More like 12 years will have passed (you can run about 5 seasons a year as a season runs 2 of our real world months each). 

But rback this is a progressive league. Many progressive leagues expect to run for "decades" of WIS baseball, some start at 1885 or 1900 and run whole centuries. There is nothing unusual about this. 

But from your description you would be an average manager for the NY Mets, or maybe you are secretly Lou Piniella?
8/11/2014 5:33 PM
No maybe it is 18 as I was undercounting, in any case at that point I would be 72 myself and muttering about how good life would be if people had only listened to George McGovern when I was 12, and that the Yankees should have kept Alfonso Soriano and Nick Johnson and never gotten A-Rod or Jason Giambi...
8/11/2014 5:35 PM
Verrry interesting.... Reds, please
8/11/2014 6:18 PM
Posted by italyprof on 8/11/2014 5:33:00 PM (view original):
More like 12 years will have passed (you can run about 5 seasons a year as a season runs 2 of our real world months each). 

But rback this is a progressive league. Many progressive leagues expect to run for "decades" of WIS baseball, some start at 1885 or 1900 and run whole centuries. There is nothing unusual about this. 

But from your description you would be an average manager for the NY Mets, or maybe you are secretly Lou Piniella?
I have never been more insulted in my life. I have withstood may shots directed at me in my life but "An average manager for Metsies" I can't endure.

Best-O-Luck with this league
8/11/2014 9:34 PM
Welcome specsman. The Reds are yours.
8/12/2014 5:14 AM
Do we go by baseball rosters or WIS?
8/12/2014 1:45 PM
cleonjones, I think we need to go with WIS, though we need to amend it a little if for some reason the same player shows up on two different rosters. The problem with baseball-reference might be players that had not enough PA or IP to show up here at WIS' database. If there is a player on two teams, they will be on the one that they started the season in question on in Jubilee years. Otherwise it is WIS. 

So I will start running through the rosters for 1944 for the teams. I will try to post them here and any rosters with fewer than 25 players can be filled with any player - I originally said 200K, but am thinking 250K or less now that an owner wants to use. 

So you can all just go to the DC, put the name of your team and the year 1944 and use that roster. 
8/12/2014 2:16 PM
Welcome poppapomp (who joined through the progs classifieds) and specsman (who has joined through the theme leagues classifieds), and cleonjones and mini157 it will be great to be in another league with you guys !

One thing that occurred to me is that in many of the prog leagues I play in where we play in eras I did not witness in my own life, I don't actually know who some of the players even played for - no mental image of them on a team, as we draft individuals out of context. Plus one of the fun things about Strat-o-matic, APL or other board games and now with OOTP which I enjoy a lot is the What If factor of starting your real life team in a certain season and seeing if with trades or intelligent management you can do better. So I wanted a way to do that here and this is what I came up with. (You can always tell when professors are off for a part of the summer - I start teaching again in a few weeks - we have too much time on our hands to come up with crazy ideas like this one). 

Anyway we are now halfway there ! 

By the way, I am leaning toward a 4-division set up so that there would be 4 playoff spots, rather than just two, to add to competitiveness. I hope this won't dissuade anyone from joining. But I think it will make it easier to have somewhat weaker teams historically taken up and make the pennant races more exciting, and I thank clcunc31 for the suggestion. I hope he decides to join as well. 

1.italyprof (will choose franchise after 12 owners are in)

2. dh0220 - Detroit Tigers
3.topkat - Cleveland Indians
4.coled - St. Louis Cardinals
5.poppapomp - Brooklyn/ Los Angeles Dodgers
6.cleonjones - New York/San Francisco Giants
7.mini157 - St. Louis Browns/Baltimore Orioles
8.specsman - Cincinnati Reds
9.shawbigred - Chicago Cubs

9 owners in. Only 7 to go and we can start our first season. 

Still available: 

Chicago White Sox
Boston Red Sox
New York Yankees
Philadelphia/Kansas City/Oakland Athletics
Washington Senators (original)/Minnesota Twins


Philadelphia Phillies
Boston/Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves
Pittsburgh Pirates
8/12/2014 8:24 PM
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