Am I getting screwed here? Topic

OK, you asked for thoughts.   I gave you mine.  

Rushing to make deals is a bad idea.  Experienced, inexperience, successful, unsuccessful, it doesn't matter.   The commish saw a new owner rushing to make deals and offering up a 25 y/o beast and very good, albeit overpaid, 180 inning pitcher for "not much in return".   It's a horrible negotiating stance, "I don't really want anything but to be rid of these contracts and I'm taking the first offer I get", and it's coming from a owner that's new to the world and new to HBD.  He probably could have done it privately but, either way, something needed to be said.  

If you call that "interfering" so be it.  I think, had he left out "I was going to make offers for those guys", there would be no question that he was looking out for the best interest of the world. 
2/2/2015 8:49 AM
Perhaps. But with that little added comment, it sure changes the posture doesn't it?
2/2/2015 8:58 AM
The biggest issue is the Stairs contract. He's got around $70 to $80 million left in his year 35 season, while already showing regression. If I have any chance of clearing out that salary I think I need to add in Ward. Ward is already at $7 million, and he won't be around to enjoy my team's resurgence. Packaging those two together makes eating Stair's salary palatable, while at the same time netting me some decent return. Relative value dictates to move Stairs as soon as possible. And thats what I did. I understand the commissioner's concern, but he blew up what for me was a really good deal. Thats the way I play. And it has been successful for me. I know I am going to be mediocre at best over the next few seasons, but I have the patience and the meticulous attention to detail that yields results.
2/2/2015 9:02 AM

A little but not so much that I think he was only concerned about being able to make an offer himself.   If you look at the context of the chat, notably BBMogul's post, it looks like he was more concerned that you weren't getting value.

POKEYSAN Surf Riders 2/1/2015 6:11 PM Let's wait until you at least get projected ratings out. I for one will make an offer on Ward and Stairs once they do.
sjpoker Pacifics 2/1/2015 5:52 PM Cory Moehler is gone now as well. Still willing to talk about Rico Cano and Pedro Olmeda . Not looking for top prospects here, just good prospects that are major league ready.
sjpoker Pacifics 2/1/2015 5:26 PM First come, first serve.
BBMogul Assassins 2/1/2015 4:40 PM You're not even going to see what anyone else will offer?
sjpoker Pacifics 2/1/2015 3:52 PM Dann Hooper and Mark Kwon are gone in addition to Ward and Stairs. Cano and Olmeda are still available.

2/2/2015 9:04 AM
A)  You haven't been successful in HBD. 
B)  If you post in a public place, like the world chat, you can't dictate how someone responds to your posts.
C) As I said, new owners often take the "I gotta burn this down and start over" approach when they don't have to.

IMO, owners new to worlds should learn the lay of the land before going balls to the wall with trades.   Find out what owners value and how the world plays before laying waste to the team's veteran players.   I get wanting to move Stairs quickly.   But, had you not offered Ward in package, maybe you could have traded Stairs for some AAAA-type and kept Ward.   That's off the table now.
2/2/2015 9:09 AM
I find that "First come, first serve" is rarely a good idea in HBD; maybe that works better in other fantasy environments. I know I've been irritated before to see someone post a player on the chat board at 1:30, and by 3:00 they've accepted an offer already. In the meantime, I've been in a meeting and would've offered more had I a chance to even be aware of the player.
2/2/2015 9:09 AM
You'll love this.   Looking at all the guys you're trying to move, your payroll and the results from last season, you've taken the "I gotta tear this down and start over" approach I mentioned.    And you don't have to.    You took over a playoff team with a handful of stars and 78m in payroll.   By adding a few pieces thru FA, I think that team could easily compete for a playoff spot again.
2/2/2015 9:50 AM
Maybe he doesn't have playoff contender in mind as his goal. He has his idea, and he wants to follow through on it. You might call it tanking, but we both know that in HBD, the surest way to build a championship contender is to tear it down, and then build it up.
2/2/2015 10:04 AM
FYI, I am aware that a blanket statement like that doesn't apply to each and every situation.
2/2/2015 10:06 AM
I'm not calling it anything.   But I've found the game is more fun when you're winning. 

Anyway, one thing I've noticed is this:  A lot of owners play the "Hold him back 20 games so I get the extra year of control" game.   And, if you check their history, they've never stayed in a world for 11 seasons.    That can transfer over to the "tear it down and rebuild it" gameplan.  4-5 seasons of rebuilding, losing the entire time, to win for the next 10.  That's 4 real-life years.   Will the site be around in 2019?  Will you still be playing HBD if it is?  Will you be in that world?   What if the world is slow to fill, will you still stay?   And, if it's your first season in the world, are you sure you'll like this world for the next 4 real-life years?   Or 6 real-life years if it takes a month or two to fill between seasons?
2/2/2015 10:11 AM
I get it Mike. I could probably keep a lot of the players in place and get a playoff spot. But thats not what I want to do here.  I want sustainable playoff success, as well as learning and developing my own philosophy in the mean time. shobob is right.

You're outlook on what I should do is YOUR outlook. And that may be the best method. You're certainly one of the top players out there. But if I use the same methodologies as the guys who already have it nailed down, what chance do I have at success? My personal philosophy is to look for the margins no one else is looking at and exploit them. Thats what I am doing here. I studied what others are doing, and came up with what I think is best. Is it the best method? Right now, no. It takes time to refine it. But I think it will be successful. I do that in fantasy and I do that in business. I am usually successful - even if there are some bumps along the way.

hypnotoad - I find striking early in cases where you want to do a salary dump is best. Alert owners are already looking for those players. Once the masses start dumping their own players on the board, it dilutes the pool and often times you are left out to dry because a comparable player has a more mobile contract. Instant gratification is definitely a motive in these leagues. Players want to flip the world into the next season as soon as possible. Most teams are out of it by the 3/4, 4/5 mark - OR they are playoff teams that are eager to tweak what they have so they can get back into it. Why not be first in the pot right?

2/2/2015 10:21 AM
You're free to go about your business in whatever manner you choose.   However, my point is simple.   You've already found that there is some resistance to your methods and the world hasn't even completed budgeting.   Are you sure that's the world where you want to set up house for the next 4-5 years?  Because, once you tear it down, you're committing to losing for 2-4 seasons(minimum) in order to get where you want to be.  You may tire of the owners in the world, or their attitude towards you, before your glorious run of success begins.   Even as an experienced owner, I've joined worlds I found I didn't like.  There are a couple of one and dones on my resume'. 

Anyway, I think "rushing" to any action in HBD is probably a bad idea.    The concept is "dynasty" and that isn't built on Day One. 
2/2/2015 10:39 AM

Here are my one and dones:

Aaron - 1st season of HBD.   No one knew anything but owners were throwing cash in trades like candy at Mardi Gras.   Fortunately, some developers were there and limitations were set on cash.   But I found I didn't like a lot of the owners in there so I moved on.

Bo Jackson - brought in as commish.  Rules were agreed upon before I took over and a rule was broken early.  Not that big of a deal but, when the world seemed to care less about it, it was time for me to move on. 

Musial - come to find out 20+ owners knew one another in the real world.   "Help a brother out" trades were acceptable.  But not to me.


Had I known what I'd encounter, I wouldn't have joined any of them.   The difference between us, should you find you don't like the world 3 months from now and leave, is that I won my division in all three.   Once you complete your teardown, you'll be sitting in 4th. 


 

2/2/2015 10:49 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/2/2015 10:39:00 AM (view original):
You're free to go about your business in whatever manner you choose.   However, my point is simple.   You've already found that there is some resistance to your methods and the world hasn't even completed budgeting.   Are you sure that's the world where you want to set up house for the next 4-5 years?  Because, once you tear it down, you're committing to losing for 2-4 seasons(minimum) in order to get where you want to be.  You may tire of the owners in the world, or their attitude towards you, before your glorious run of success begins.   Even as an experienced owner, I've joined worlds I found I didn't like.  There are a couple of one and dones on my resume'. 

Anyway, I think "rushing" to any action in HBD is probably a bad idea.    The concept is "dynasty" and that isn't built on Day One. 
These are words of wisdom. Even if you don't agree with everything else MikeT23 says, these words should still ring true. In HBD, it's best to choose your world wisely. Having said that, the first world you join need not be your only one. Once you have a few seasons under your belt, you can apply for, and get into an "elite" world, and try your method out against more experienced/skilled opponents.
2/2/2015 10:55 AM
Mike - I appreciate the wisdom. Everyone, aside the commissioner, has been cool and supportive. Even when they have sided with the commissioner, they've been respectful. I think I will like the world.

We'll see if my methods produce results, and if they don't I will do what I always do: make adjustments.
2/2/2015 11:16 AM
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Am I getting screwed here? Topic

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