Police interaction Topic

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Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:18:00 PM (view original):
BL, just curious here.... When/if you're pulled over by the cops, do you:

a. Jump out of your car, swearing, and threaten the cop (physically)?
b. Jump out of your car, citing your rights, and threaten the cop (verbally)?
c. Stay in your car, swearing to yourself, and quietly acquiesce to the cop's requests?
d. Wait till the cop walks to your window, and then floor it, and hope to outrun the cop, because you KNOW he would be wrong to shoot you?
BL?
What are you asking? If it's smart to run from the cops? Of course not. Dubose should not have done it. But just doing something dumb doesn't make you partially responsible if someone murders you.

It's not smart to leave your front door unlocked while you sleep at night. But if you do, and someone comes in and murders you, you aren't to blame for the murder. The murderer is.
Of course - You can't 'murder' yourself.... But it does make you partially responsible for the fact that you are now DEAD.
Are you separating blame from responsibility?
No, in fact it was Dubose's irresponsibility that I'm blaming. It was his irresponsible decisions that led to his death.

Driving off and resisting arrest was stupid. He was more likely to get killed driving off/resisting arrest vs simply complying. Leaving your door unlocked was stupid. You were more likely to have an intruder in your house than your neighbor who smartly locked their door.
So the person that left their door unlocked was partially to blame for their own murder?

Even though you just said "of course" that person isn't responsible for their own murder.
Technically speaking they can not be 'blamed' for their own 'murder' since the definition of murder is 'the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another'... BUT they can share blame for thier own death. I.e. because of this persons irresponsibilty/stupidity they were murdered.
I think we have a fundamental disagreement about how blame works.

You, in one sentence, just said they cannot be "blamed"...but they "share blame." 

They are either partially to blame or not. It can't be both.
8/7/2015 2:41 PM
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Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe not in those words.  But it's been the constant theme in all your threads about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.

Or are you going to now pretend that it's not?

I don't think cops are murderous pigs. I think Tensing is a murderer.

I think we have a problem with racism in this country that a lot people would prefer to ignore.
Maybe the problem is not that people are preferring to ignore racism.

Maybe the problem is a difference of opinion on how to best address it.

Your condoning of the riots in Baltimore a couple of months as a justifiable "means to an end" is a pretty good example of "maybe that's not the best approach to a solution".

By the way, how did those Baltimore riots work out as a means to an end?  Any significant change come about in solving the problem of racism in America, or did it just result in some homies getting themselves some free **** and causing a lot of damage to businesses and the personal property of innocent people?
BL?
8/7/2015 3:14 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 2:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:18:00 PM (view original):
BL, just curious here.... When/if you're pulled over by the cops, do you:

a. Jump out of your car, swearing, and threaten the cop (physically)?
b. Jump out of your car, citing your rights, and threaten the cop (verbally)?
c. Stay in your car, swearing to yourself, and quietly acquiesce to the cop's requests?
d. Wait till the cop walks to your window, and then floor it, and hope to outrun the cop, because you KNOW he would be wrong to shoot you?
BL?
What are you asking? If it's smart to run from the cops? Of course not. Dubose should not have done it. But just doing something dumb doesn't make you partially responsible if someone murders you.

It's not smart to leave your front door unlocked while you sleep at night. But if you do, and someone comes in and murders you, you aren't to blame for the murder. The murderer is.
Of course - You can't 'murder' yourself.... But it does make you partially responsible for the fact that you are now DEAD.
Are you separating blame from responsibility?
No, in fact it was Dubose's irresponsibility that I'm blaming. It was his irresponsible decisions that led to his death.

Driving off and resisting arrest was stupid. He was more likely to get killed driving off/resisting arrest vs simply complying. Leaving your door unlocked was stupid. You were more likely to have an intruder in your house than your neighbor who smartly locked their door.
So the person that left their door unlocked was partially to blame for their own murder?

Even though you just said "of course" that person isn't responsible for their own murder.
Technically speaking they can not be 'blamed' for their own 'murder' since the definition of murder is 'the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another'... BUT they can share blame for thier own death. I.e. because of this persons irresponsibilty/stupidity they were murdered.
I think we have a fundamental disagreement about how blame works.

You, in one sentence, just said they cannot be "blamed"...but they "share blame." 

They are either partially to blame or not. It can't be both.
no we don't have a disagreement - just swap out the word 'murder' for 'death' in your examples and we are on the same page. Technically nobody can 'murder' themselves, that's called 'suicide'. I want to make sure you understand that none of us here think Dubose deserved to be brought up on murder charges - only that he was partly responsible for his own death. So from your example above - "So the person that left their door unlocked was partially to blame for their own {DEATH}" The answer is yes.
If you are partially to blame for your death, and your death was a murder, you are partially to blame for your murder.
8/7/2015 3:38 PM (edited)
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
When you eat a chili cheeseburger, you're partly to blame for your heart attack 8 years later.    YOU made a decision that YOU should have known wasn't good for YOU. 

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, *************!!!!!
8/7/2015 7:53 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 6:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 3:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 2:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:59:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 8/7/2015 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by toddcommish on 8/7/2015 12:18:00 PM (view original):
BL, just curious here.... When/if you're pulled over by the cops, do you:

a. Jump out of your car, swearing, and threaten the cop (physically)?
b. Jump out of your car, citing your rights, and threaten the cop (verbally)?
c. Stay in your car, swearing to yourself, and quietly acquiesce to the cop's requests?
d. Wait till the cop walks to your window, and then floor it, and hope to outrun the cop, because you KNOW he would be wrong to shoot you?
BL?
What are you asking? If it's smart to run from the cops? Of course not. Dubose should not have done it. But just doing something dumb doesn't make you partially responsible if someone murders you.

It's not smart to leave your front door unlocked while you sleep at night. But if you do, and someone comes in and murders you, you aren't to blame for the murder. The murderer is.
Of course - You can't 'murder' yourself.... But it does make you partially responsible for the fact that you are now DEAD.
Are you separating blame from responsibility?
No, in fact it was Dubose's irresponsibility that I'm blaming. It was his irresponsible decisions that led to his death.

Driving off and resisting arrest was stupid. He was more likely to get killed driving off/resisting arrest vs simply complying. Leaving your door unlocked was stupid. You were more likely to have an intruder in your house than your neighbor who smartly locked their door.
So the person that left their door unlocked was partially to blame for their own murder?

Even though you just said "of course" that person isn't responsible for their own murder.
Technically speaking they can not be 'blamed' for their own 'murder' since the definition of murder is 'the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another'... BUT they can share blame for thier own death. I.e. because of this persons irresponsibilty/stupidity they were murdered.
I think we have a fundamental disagreement about how blame works.

You, in one sentence, just said they cannot be "blamed"...but they "share blame." 

They are either partially to blame or not. It can't be both.
no we don't have a disagreement - just swap out the word 'murder' for 'death' in your examples and we are on the same page. Technically nobody can 'murder' themselves, that's called 'suicide'. I want to make sure you understand that none of us here think Dubose deserved to be brought up on murder charges - only that he was partly responsible for his own death. So from your example above - "So the person that left their door unlocked was partially to blame for their own {DEATH}" The answer is yes.
If you are partially to blame for your death, and your death was a murder, you are partially to blame for your murder.
Thanks for clarifying. Then yes... I'm fine with replacing 'death' with 'murder' as defined by you.

So yes Dubose and the person that left their door open are partly to blame for their murders
I mean, if you're going to assign blame to a murder victim for leaving their door unlocked, I guess all mureder victims deserve some blame. They all did something that contributed to the situation that resulted in their murder.
8/8/2015 2:29 PM
This post has a rating of , which is below the default threshold.
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe not in those words.  But it's been the constant theme in all your threads about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.

Or are you going to now pretend that it's not?

I don't think cops are murderous pigs. I think Tensing is a murderer.

I think we have a problem with racism in this country that a lot people would prefer to ignore.
Maybe the problem is not that people are preferring to ignore racism.

Maybe the problem is a difference of opinion on how to best address it.

Your condoning of the riots in Baltimore a couple of months as a justifiable "means to an end" is a pretty good example of "maybe that's not the best approach to a solution".

By the way, how did those Baltimore riots work out as a means to an end?  Any significant change come about in solving the problem of racism in America, or did it just result in some homies getting themselves some free **** and causing a lot of damage to businesses and the personal property of innocent people?
BL?
BL???
8/8/2015 3:08 PM
Posted by moy23 on 8/8/2015 2:48:00 PM (view original):
not all. Just last weekend a guy in Chicago was shot down in his car because of mistaken identity. The shooter thought he was someone else. Hard to place blame on a guy for that. Same as if my wife and I are walking down michigan avenue holiday shopping and a stray bullet kills me. Hard to blame me for that. ...But if a cop pulls me over and I choose to flee - well, I would share some of the blame for the cop killing me. Or if I knowing walked through a dangerous neighborhood for no reason and I got mugged or killed - yes I would share the blame. Or is I was legally walking across the street with my head down texting and a car hit and kills me - yes, I would share some of the blame.
Just last weekend a guy in Chicago was shot down in his car because of mistaken identity. The shooter thought he was someone else. Hard to place blame on a guy for that.

You keep talking about all the murder in Chicago. Dude should have known that. His fault for being in such a ****** city.
Same as if my wife and I are walking down michigan avenue holiday shopping and a stray bullet kills me

While still murder, that's more of an accident. No one was actually trying to kill you. You're still partly to blame for being in Chicago in the first place.
8/10/2015 12:34 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/8/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe not in those words.  But it's been the constant theme in all your threads about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.

Or are you going to now pretend that it's not?

I don't think cops are murderous pigs. I think Tensing is a murderer.

I think we have a problem with racism in this country that a lot people would prefer to ignore.
Maybe the problem is not that people are preferring to ignore racism.

Maybe the problem is a difference of opinion on how to best address it.

Your condoning of the riots in Baltimore a couple of months as a justifiable "means to an end" is a pretty good example of "maybe that's not the best approach to a solution".

By the way, how did those Baltimore riots work out as a means to an end?  Any significant change come about in solving the problem of racism in America, or did it just result in some homies getting themselves some free **** and causing a lot of damage to businesses and the personal property of innocent people?
BL?
BL???
BL?????
8/10/2015 2:18 PM
8/10/2015 2:39 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 8/10/2015 2:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/8/2015 3:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 3:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:48:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 8/7/2015 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 8/7/2015 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Maybe not in those words.  But it's been the constant theme in all your threads about Michael Brown, Eric Garner, etc.

Or are you going to now pretend that it's not?

I don't think cops are murderous pigs. I think Tensing is a murderer.

I think we have a problem with racism in this country that a lot people would prefer to ignore.
Maybe the problem is not that people are preferring to ignore racism.

Maybe the problem is a difference of opinion on how to best address it.

Your condoning of the riots in Baltimore a couple of months as a justifiable "means to an end" is a pretty good example of "maybe that's not the best approach to a solution".

By the way, how did those Baltimore riots work out as a means to an end?  Any significant change come about in solving the problem of racism in America, or did it just result in some homies getting themselves some free **** and causing a lot of damage to businesses and the personal property of innocent people?
BL?
BL???
BL?????
FWIW, I totally understand why BL is avoiding answering the question.  I'd feel pretty stupid too if I had advocated rioting as "an end justifying the needs" if the end I was hoping for never had a chance of happening.

Not a "finest hour" if it were anybody else.  But par for the course for BL.
8/10/2015 4:28 PM
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