TROY TULOWITZKI for JOSE REYES!!!! Topic

And that's assuming the cost to acquire and the years of control are the same.

If the trade price for Tulo was the same as it was for Cueto, this was a no brainer.
7/28/2015 2:57 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 7/28/2015 2:55:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 7/28/2015 2:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 7/28/2015 2:36:00 PM (view original):
But I'll answer for you.

The answer is they will not expect to win more games. Or less games. In both scenarios, they would expect to win 98 games*.




*Obviously, the Jays aren't going to win 98 games this season, despite their great run differential. But, as long as the full season RS/RA are somewhere in the neighborhood of what we can reasonably expect them to finish with, adding 10 runs of offense is the same as saving 10 runs with pitching.
The Jays have scored 72 more runs than everybody else in MLB, and are +123 over MLB average.

Their pitching staff has allowed 28 more runs than MLB average.

When you're trying to improve a team, is it smarter to make the things that work great even better, or try to improve the things that are working poorly?

Easier or smarter?

It's easier to replace a 1 win player with a 3 win player. It's harder to replace a 3 win player with a 5 win player. But the improvement is the same.
Oh, there it is.

WAR, ************!!!!

You're a slave to your precious WAR.

7/28/2015 2:59 PM
WAR is just shorthand for runs, dipshit.
7/28/2015 3:04 PM
Are you little kids done bickering yet?

Sheesh, at no point did anyone here put two lucid thoughts together to make a valid point.
You, over the course of mere hours, set the analytics community back by centuries.
Everyone is now dumber for having read this chat thread.

May god have mercy on your miserable souls.
7/28/2015 3:33 PM
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Wow guys, I was expecting Tulo vs Reyes. LOL. The Blue Jays got LaTroy Hawkins so they did improve pitching. Also, you guys arguments are the perfect example of how some stats are so advanced, they're useless. Also, those are PROJECTIONS. I'd take pitching over offense anyday but a win is a win whether it's 10-9 or 4-3. A run scored is a run saved is true. Evil_twin, nice Billy Madison reference
7/28/2015 4:51 PM
Thank you!  Somebody gets it!
7/28/2015 8:14 PM
Offensively speaking (forget your precious stats etc) it's about a 'saw-off'.  Both will hit around about the same average, one is a more a power guy,  while the other is your standard lead of hitter/SB guy.  Again both can be valuable to a line up.  What Toronto mainly gets in this one is a far better glove at SS.  Reyes an 'okay' fielding SS..where as Tulo is one of the best fielding SS in the MLB.   This where his main value is when you compare him to Reyes...  A better defense helps ANY pitching staff.  Less pitches thrown, less times giving the other team 4 outs in an inning or giving them an extra 90 feet, more times taking away possible hits.....etc etc  etc
I don't need stats to tell me this, it is simple common sense. Having a better fielding SS (a very key defensive position) helps your pitchers. 

All that said however...whether you win by 10-9  or 7-3 or 2-1...it's a W and that's is all that matters.  It's true you score 1 run, the other guys have to 1 and another to beat you.  I like the other saying too evil twin.  



8/4/2015 5:17 PM
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much rather have Tulo than Reyes. They're about the same age, but Tulo is the better fielder, has more power, hits for better average and has a better OBP. the only thing Reyes does better is steal bases.
8/4/2015 7:57 PM
I think what he's saying is ignore the bullshit "advanced metrics" do we really need PWrSpd? IsoPwr? WAR? LDR? Do we really need that Fangraphs win % based on 2-1 wins vs 10-9 wins?
8/4/2015 9:07 PM
Exactly!  A win is a win.  The biggest thing about acquiring Tulo is it makes Toronto's defense better. That will help the pitching staff and will help them win games. A couple of professors that taught stats courses I took, always reminded their students to never rely on stats too much.  Their meaning depends on how a person chooses to interpret them.  Also both of them always laughed at all of the stats baseball uses. I agree with them, it's gotten to a point where most are meaningless.  

Most important stat is the score.  You score more runs than your opposition in a game, believe it or not... you win.  Strange how that works.


8/5/2015 9:14 AM (edited)
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I think he's saying that statisticians make up stats to justify their job.    I won't get into the whole "FIP is stupid" argument but it is.    A ball hit 402 feet at one field ends up in a glove while being a homer in another.   Getting a strikeout against the Cubs is routine, getting one against the Royals is something to note.

There are plenty of stats that don't mean a whole lot.    That doesn't mean you just toss all of them out, oWAR actually does indicate who are the most effective hitters, but you can't get a lot of info from some. 
8/5/2015 2:28 PM (edited)
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TROY TULOWITZKI for JOSE REYES!!!! Topic

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